Bosch Performance Line CX motor sounds like a loud milk float. Is it normal?

[Nealh]

All the time a crank motor looks like a brick bolted on they will be easy to spot as will the enlarged battery frame tube.

 

[Old Fart At Play]

Hiya Nev...
The bike chose itself in a way. Fully-loaded cycle touring is my thing, so I've ridden a steel-framed drop-handlebar tourer with front and rear panniers for many years. Over the last coiple of years though. I noticed that I was planning routes that avoided hills - eg tours of Netherlands, Belgium, Burgundy. Last year we got my wife an ebike and she let me have a go - the uphill experience was a revelation.

So I wanted to get an ebike too, but in my case I needed one that could take all 4 panniers. That means a rigid non-carbon fork. I know you can mount panniers on forks with suspension, but it isn't great.

I started looking, and couldn't believe that almost every ebike I looked at had front suspension!

In the end I could only find 2 bikes (back in February) that were suitable for fully laden touring - this bike, and the Koga e-world traveller. I went for this one rather than the Koga because the Koga was a bit too much like my steel tourer; plus my local bike shop is a Trek/bosch dealer and if at all possible I wanted to buy from him.

The motor wasn't a significant factor; I certainly didnt expect it to be noisier than my wife's, which I was happy with.

The rear rack takes my rear Ortliebs perfectly, and the front forks have bosses for front pannier rack, so this bike should suit my touring needs very well.

Now that I have the bike, I understand that it is based on an MTB, but with smooth tyres and no suspension - so I guess it is an oddball. I love it though!

Cheers, John

 

[Deep Blue Witch]

I just bought a bosch performance. Was advised it is quite a bit quieter than the kathmandu's cx motor. Just sayin.. it might be performing as it should.

 

[Old Fart At Play]

I just bought a bosch performance. Was advised it is quite a bit quieter than the kathmandu's cx motor. Just sayin.. it might be performing as it should.

Sorry, a bit puzzled by your post! Were you advised that the performance CX was queit? How noisy do you find yours? Ta
Cheers, John

 

[Old Fart At Play]

Update. Took the bike back to LBS last Friday. He tried it out and, in an inspired move, recorded the noise on his phone (dont know how he managed that while riding!). Diagnostics showed nothing of course.

Then he got on to Bosch. At first they were a bit 'it is a more powerful motor, it is bound to be noisier' but then he played the recording. They asked him to send them the recording and a claim.

Yesterday he heard from them - they are sending a new motor out. So a big thumbs up to Bosch and my LBS there. The motor should arrive next week, but I dont know when I will get the bike back as he is working flat out at the minute.

I'll let you know the outcome.

Interesting to observe how much I am missing my ebike, even though I had only had it for a week!

Cheers, John

 

[cyclebuddy]

...they are sending a new motor out. So a big thumbs up to Bosch and my LBS there.

Eh? I don't understand your appreciation or logic... A big thumbs up to both a manufacturer and a dealer for selling and sending out a bike that was defective as new?

I'd have to say I experienced a similar kind of sloppy manufacturing/quality control when I bought a brand new Mercedes. It just makes me angry given the premium the Germans charge for their so-called "excellence in engineering".

 

[Philip Copley]

I have a CX(V4) on a Cube Reaction Hybrid Pro 500 2020 and it makes more noise than my older AL3, but I wouldn't say it's really loud. But then I wouldn't say i hit 90rpm. But I love the fact that it totally disengages after 15.5mph. There was still a little resistance over 15.5mph on the AL3. Regards, Phil.

 

[Old Fart At Play]

Eh? I don't understand your appreciation or logic... A big thumbs up to both a manufacturer and a dealer for selling and sending out a bike that was defective as new?

I'd have to say I experienced a similar kind of sloppy manufacturing/quality control when I bought a brand new Mercedes. It just makes me angry given the premium the Germans charge for their so-called "excellence in engineering".

1) Is it defective? I don't know. It sounds very loud to me, but plenty of people say it is a louder motor. I've got nothing to compare it with other than my wife's bike, and hers had a different motor which I now understand is generally held to be quieter than mine. My LBS guy doesn't really know either - this is the first gen 4 CX motor equipped bike he has sold, so what does he have to compare it with? But he knew I was upset, that I thought it was wrong, and he dealt with it. I have seen stories of bike shops fobbing people off - he didn't.

2) QC/QA is a numbers game. No production line that I can think of is ever 100% perfect. The motor passes the diagnostics. What are thhey going to do, put every single motor in some sort of test rig and emulate cycling at different cadences, and listening? You can't even use a sound meter for this sort of thing, because different pitches of sound affect decibels in different ways. But Bosch listened to the recording, and then said without quibbling, we'll send you out another motor.

Good customer service isn't about never making mistakes. It is about rectifying them when you become aware of them.

I trust your defective Mercedes was fixed in a similarly prompt fashion.

Cheers, John

 

[Old Fart At Play]

I have a CX(V4) on a Cube Reaction Hybrid Pro 500 2020 and it makes more noise than my older AL3, but I wouldn't say it's really loud. But then I wouldn't say i hit 90rpm. But I love the fact that it totally disengages after 15.5mph. There was still a little resistance over 15.5mph on the AL3. Regards, Phil.

Hiya Phil...

ta for this. Yes I have (after the event) come to realise that my wife's (AL3) motor is so quiet because it is a very quiet motor <g>. Your comparison is v helpful though because that is the same 2 motors that I am comparing. The best illustration of the difference in noise I can give, is that when we are cycling along together, she can't hear her bike at all above the noise that my bike makes! It sounds like your CX4 can't be as loud as mine, but subjectivity makes this so complicated. That is one of the reasons I was so pleased with the response of the LBS and Bosch.

But yes, that disengagement is sweet, it feels really natural to ride, I absolutely love it apart from the noise!

Cheers, John

 

[cyclebuddy]

1) Is it defective? I don't know.

Bosch obviously think so. They don't send out new £800 motors for a laugh.

2) QC/QA is a numbers game.

Crap. I taught Quality Management for a while in the 1980's. If your bike had failed after a period of time, that might be understandable. From what you say here, yours seems (in your own opinion, which Bosch are now agreeing with) defective at the point of sale.

I trust your defective Mercedes was fixed in a similarly prompt fashion.

No, it never was. Like your e-bike, in 4 visits to the dealership, they just kept plugging it into their diagnostic computer, and the computer said it was okay. It was a chance meeting with a Mercedes enthusiast mechanic who really understood how these things really functioned that sorted the problem in 10 minutes with a spanner. That's the problem with CANbus diagnostics - all it says is replace this module or that. The poor sod operating the computer understands nothing, other than to replace the motor, controller or display. My enthusiast Mercedes mechanic sorted my car with a spanner (problem one), and a soldering iron (dry joint in a £100 plug-in module). The so-called Main Agent Mercedes Mechanics hadn't a clue.

I bought that Mercedes in 1997, 23 years ago. I still have it. It's been perfect ever since. The question remains how it left the factory - and subsequently a Main Agent Dealer - with such obvious faults.

I'm not going to "Bosch Bash" - there's enough of that going on here on the forum. The issue is to my mind one of releasing defective goods which so clearly are "not fit for purpose". But if you're happy to accept a repair with all the inconvenience that entails to a new - expensive - e-bike, that's fine with me. I personally wouldn't.

 

[soundwave]

5 years with a dongle and still good as new but as you can see there is a lot more that can go wrong compared to a hub motor.

could be just a faulty electric motor making a hi pitch whine or bearings not installed right or faulty from new so no software will detect this anyway.

dealers can not open motors with warranty so must be sent back for replacement units as will not sell the parts or even give them to dealers for warranty repair same as apple, they dont even stock fkn phone batts ffs lol.

and if my motor did fail in some way peter at performance line bearings will fix it for free

 

[Old Fart At Play]

Cyclebuddy - no, it isn't crap. I'd be very surprised if Bosch did 100% inspections. If you don't do 100% inspections, there is of course a risk that some defects will get through.

My experience has been completely unlike yours, where you went to the dealer 4 times, and all they did was run diagnostics. On my first visit, I have been offered a solution. To me, that is good customer service.

 

[Nealh]

Good CS is only as good as the people who work in or run the LBS.

 

[cyclebuddy]

Cyclebuddy - no, it isn't crap. I'd be very surprised if Bosch did 100% inspections. If you don't do 100% inspections, there is of course a risk that some defects will get through.

Maybe it's just the Germans that don't take quality seriously then.

Here's a Bafang Factory Tour video: They have 6 motor production lines, one of which is producing 34,000 motors a month.

There's component level checking before assembly into the motor, the sub-assemblies are then quality checked as the motor progresses, and finally EVERY motor is quality tested and checked again: Those measured parameters for each individual motor are stored on a server linked to each motors serial number, which is laser-engraved into it. That way each motor can be traced to source if problems do later arise.

Final stage quality checking and testing is shown here at about 2.15:

Worth watching all 8 videos. There are other Chinese e-bike motor factory tours: One from Shengyi motors shows a similar "zero defect" philosophy too.

 

[Old Fart At Play]

There's component level checking before assembly into the motor, the sub-assemblies are then quality checked as the motor progresses, and finally EVERY motor is quality tested and checked again

That really is interesting. I was under the impression that people only did 100% inspections when either the equipment was mission critical, or there was a known issue with quality. Certainly when I worked at Schlumberger that was the case - the more reliable the products, the fewer samples were taken. Seems like times have changed!

Nonetheless, I remain very happy with the customer service I have received.

 

[Philip Copley]

Went out for a ride at the weekend with my lad and I couldn't hear the motor on the AL3 at all as I was cycling. But like you say could hear the gen 4 all the way like a very quiet electric milk float

 

[Old Fart At Play]

Went out for a ride at the weekend with my lad and I couldn't hear the motor on the AL3 at all as I was cycling. But like you say could hear the gen 4 all the way like a very quiet electric milk float

Ta Philip... that settles it, your milk float is quieter than mine! <g>
Cheers, John

 

[Old Fart At Play]

Ta Philip... that settles it, your milk float is quieter than mine! <g>
Cheers, John

Hiya again...
I haven't mentioned it before, but there are three parts to the noise my CX makes. One is the milk float noise, but another part is a super high pitched jangling, it is like having tinnitus, it sounds like the noise is in my ears rather than coming from the bike. Do you get that too?

Also, when you weere out with your lad, were you on the AL3 or the CX gen4?

Cheers, John

 

[Philip Copley]

Hiya again...
I haven't mentioned it before, but there are three parts to the noise my CX makes. One is the milk float noise, but another part is a super high pitched jangling, it is like having tinnitus, it sounds like the noise is in my ears rather than coming from the bike. Do you get that too?

Also, when you weere out with your lad, were you on the AL3 or the CX gen4?

Cheers, John

I don't get high pitched jangling noises, i was on the CX4, I couldn't hear the motor on the AL3 he was riding!

 

[Old Fart At Play]

I don't get high pitched jangling noises, i was on the CX4, I couldn't hear the motor on the AL3 he was riding!

Do you know, could HE hear the AL3 he was riding above the noise from your CX4? I ask because my wife (on her AL3) can't hear her AL3 above my CX4, so this would be a direct comparison. (Like you, I can't hear her AL3 above my CX4)

Thanks Philip
Cheers, John