Bosch Nyon tuning dongle

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Ok RobF... we appear to be saying the same thing now so we can leave this debate.

But you've got to appreciate this isn't a game, you can't just insinuate things about me or KTM or our dealers without me coming onto defend our business and our customers.

Name the hook wriggling dealer I say - bet it was a KTM one, that Col seems to want to blame dongles for everything from corked wine to crop failure.

You seem to have admitted now, that you don't have any examples of where a KTM dealer has attempted to get out of a warranty - because it simply hasn't happened.

As Tom at LEBC has pointed out, in every case I'm aware of in the UK, where we've been involved we've actually warrantied things that shouldn't be, to help our dealers out. Not the other way around.

If you ever have a concern about a case, or want clarification, just message me or start a new thread that we can respond to, so everyone understands whats going on.

 

[RobF]

Col,

You patronise me - and others - time and time again.

I'm starting to think it's just your way, and you probably don't mean any harm.

But however you cut it, you posted claptrap about consumer law.

I corrected it, not for you benefit, but for anyone who might read the thread and take a few pointers from it.

There is widespread interest in this stuff - consumer law applies to most retail transactions, not just those involving orange bicycles.

My post that started this was clearly tongue in cheek, there was no insinuation of anything.

Unless you take my remark 'blaming dongles for everything from corked wine to crop failure' seriously.

You need to lighten up a bit.

Look at the thread title - Bosch Nyon tuning dongle.

Once again, nothing to do with KTM.

If anyone's getting a hiding on this thread, it's Bosch or the retail cycle trade generally.

Please do not tell me what I can and can not post.

That is outside your pay grade.

If you want to control all the content, start your own forum.

 

[falmouthtony]

Wouldn't it be more productive and helpful for this forum as a whole for you two guys to wash your dirty linen in private?

You'll never agree. Gets a little tedious.

 

[RobF]

Wouldn't it be more productive and helpful for this forum as a whole for you two guys to wash your dirty linen in private?

You'll never agree. Gets a little tedious.

If there was any dirty linen it would be really interesting.

Me and Col get on alright, in a 'disagree about a few things' kind of way.

I nearly bought one of his push mountain bikes - the 1964.

Only thing that stopped was I was away at the time and the bike would have to have been left in my hatchback in public over night.

I had visions of a smashed rear window and a very short ownership experience.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Yes, I'd agree Rob, I don't take anything on a forum personally and I'm on here to learn as much an anything else. Discussions usually benefit everyone writing and reading them as we can all learn something.

In this case, I think I've given you too much detail about the way the supply chain works behind the scenes to support the retailer in the hope of helping you understanding why if a warranty was declined because of the use of a dongle it would never be KTM / Haibike / Cube or any other brand that was causing the problem. I'll know for future to try and keep things more simple for everyones benefit.

Its Bosch's policy, one we just brought to the attention of the forum because some dealers were saying that the dongle doesn't invalidate your warranty.

So yes I jumped into to defend the KTM name and our dealers and always will.

So just to clear things up, your understanding of consumer law and posts about it are 100% correct.

I can't think of any case I've known for years in the cycle industry where any brand has used any loop hole to get out of fulfilling a warranty, its simply not worth it. If you're nice to the shop, I'd suggest in 99% of times you'll get something warrantied.

 

[falmouthtony]

Ah well. Glad you're still friends.
Off to watch some paint dry now

 

[RobF]

In this case, I think I've given you too much detail about the way the supply chain works behind the scenes to support the retailer in the hope of helping you understanding why if a warranty was declined because of the use of a dongle it would never be KTM / Haibike / Cube or any other brand that was causing the problem. I'll know for future to try and keep things more simple for everyones benefit.

Its Bosch's policy, one we just brought to the attention of the forum because some dealers were saying that the dongle doesn't invalidate your warranty.

That is perfectly simple and easy to understand.

If I were Bosch, I would decline a dongle warranty claim because the user has mis-used the product.

There are good technical arguments against that, but they are irrelevant, the dongle clearly gives Bosch the right to void the warranty if they wish to.

To be fair to Bosch, they point this out in the instructions.

Neither in that instance would I bother suing the retailer, because I think I would fail.

Even a sympathetic county court judge is unlikely to side with the consumer when he hears the consumer has knowingly used the product in a way the manufacturer told him not to.

My only experience with bike warranties has been positive.

The Alfine hub on the Rose conked out after 18 months.

My local bike shop, with whom I enjoy a good relationship, sent the hub/wheel off to Madison.

I don't like bullwotsit, so I insisted Madison was given the true circumstances - it was 18 months old and fitted to a Bosch ebike.

Madison changed the hub without charge.

I was expecting to pay for the repair, although I was hoping they would do it for a reasonable price.

Part of the reason for my success, I think, was the good relationship the bike shop has with Madison.

They've been buying Shimano and their other brands for years, and don't waste Madison's time by making fanciful warranty claims.

I suspect another reason for the free replacement is there have been lots of reports of problems with the Alfine 11 on ordinary bikes.

It could be Madison accept the hub is not quite up to scratch so expect quite a few to come back.

 

[earwig]

The motors don't overheat.

Bosch motors have the max rpm and torque values pre programmed.
The fitting of a dongle cannot and does not overide this.

Even if the torque and rpm values are not exceeded this does not mean the motor cannot overheat. You seem to think the motors are indestructible, I congratulate you on your faith. I have had at least 2 occasions where my bike (undongled) has come to a halt on very steep hills at low speed in bottom gear. I can't think of any other reason for it switching off completely as according to your theory it should have have continued at low power until it burst. In both cases I restarted it after a few minutes.

 

[Artstu]

Even if the torque and rpm values are not exceeded this does not mean the motor cannot overheat. You seem to think the motors are indestructible, I congratulate you on your faith. I have had at least 2 occasions where my bike (undongled) has come to a halt on very steep hills at low speed in bottom gear. I can't think of any other reason for it switching off completely as according to your theory it should have have continued at low power until it burst. In both cases I restarted it after a few minutes.

Without being there to witness the full picture it would be difficult to comment. My bike has never shown any signs of stopping in the way you describe.

 

[RobF]

Without being there to witness the full picture it would be difficult to comment. My bike has never shown any signs of stopping in the way you describe.

Aye, when I'm on one of my Bosch bikes the only thing that sometimes stops and overheats is me.

 

[SRS]

Even if the torque and rpm values are not exceeded this does not mean the motor cannot overheat. You seem to think the motors are indestructible, I congratulate you on your faith. I have had at least 2 occasions where my bike (undongled) has come to a halt on very steep hills at low speed in bottom gear. I can't think of any other reason for it switching off completely as according to your theory it should have have continued at low power until it burst. In both cases I restarted it after a few minutes.

Nothing in this world is indestructible.

If you ride the thing without mechanical sympathy and labour the motor to near death then obviously it will continue to heat up and presumably sense the abuse then cut out.

If mine gets to the point that the motor is not longer able to produce sensible revs then I get off walk. It will not overheat at the top end of its capabilities.

My statement was made assuming normal use and not abuse.