Bosch - New eMtb mode

[Eckythump]

No. It is a fixed value in other modes. Like alwasy 200% the torque you input.
But it is not a fixed value in this mode.

It's not fixed to the percentage but will only go up to a that assistance level in each mode.

 

[Eckythump]

The Shimano trail mode doesn't (yet) allow the full power in that mode, it is reserved for boost. It does have an uncanny knack of sensing when and where you need some extra assistance. As said in posts above I am sure it is related to an algorithm based on cadence, wheel speed and torque sensing.
When your cadence is higher and your torque applied is low you have very little assistance as the system seems to think you are doing ok. As the load builds so does the assistance but up to a much higher level than the Yamaha or Bosch.
It is the large difference in assistance from virtually nothing to a big push which sets it apart from the traditional levels on existing systems and the immediacy it starts to assist as soon as you start turning the cranks with a smooth build up.
The almost immediate announcement of a Bosch update following the Shimano release is why I believe it the new mode behaves in a similar way, I do not know as I have not tried it yet.

 

[Eckythump]

Which would explain the discrepancy we seem to often get here when someone asks about what bike/power is needed to climb steep hills. One bunch of people will do some maths and show that a Bosch/Yamaha rider needs to still put in a considerable (often unachievable!) amount of effort, while many people who actually own and ride the bikes basically say that if you stick it in max assist, then the bike can basically climb almost anything and if you keep the speed down, very little rider input is required, which doesn't seem to match up with the maths calcs.

It would be good to actually get to the bottom of this, as the question of hill climbing assistance is pretty fundamental to making the right choice when buying an e-bike!

Mid drives make use of the mechanical advantage provided by the bikes gearing giving way more power at the wheel than the motor wattage suggests it is capable of which is why they are so suitable for eMTB's.

I still get surprised at the trails you can ride up that are a struggle to walk up never mind ride on a regular bike.

 

[StewC]

Has anyone had the Bosch Firmware update, to get the e-MTB mode instead of sport mode, on a bike that has been dongled? Does de-restrictor still work?
Asking for a Friend....................

 

[lohr500]

I had my Intuvia upgraded to the new mode yesterday whilst my Cube was in for its 1st free service at All Terrain in Saltaire. I tend to use Eco and Tour most of the time as I am not a hardcore off roader. But I did find the new eMTB mode more flexible and less snatchy than when in fixed Turbo mode. I'm not sure if there were any changes made to the algorithms in the other modes . if there has been I can't say I have noticed anything different.

 

[Derek M Walshaw]

Just had the E-MTB upgrade done Its a more natural feel. It switches between Tour, Sport & Turbo depending how much pressure you put on pedals. E-MTB mode doesn't give you that abruptness. You still have normal Eco, Tour & Turbo if you need them

 

[WendleC]

We're picking up our bike tomorrow (well if we try it and like it which I suspect we will) - it has a Bosch Drive Unit Performance CX (75Nm) Cruise (250Watt) according to the specs - is this likely to be already on our bike - if not - will it take them long to do as it is quite a journey for us to the shop for us to take it back.

We are getting the CUBE Reaction Hybrid HPA Race 500 Blue Red E Mountain Bike

https://www.cube.eu/en/2017/e-bike-hardtail/reaction-hybrid/cube-reaction-hybrid-hpa-race-500-bluenflashred-2017/

 

[I Am Jon]

Just dropped bike off to get a spoke fixed. Will probably be getting the upgrade at same time.

 

[Japuserid]

Done about 200 miles on the new update now, including a week in Scotland and the 7 Stanes. Good mate on his CX powered Trek did not have the update so perfect for comparison.

E-mtb is not only smoother it really does makes sudden changes in terrain very easy to deal with, its also better on power consumption. At the end of each ride I always had more range left than my mate. EG after the 20 mile red and black run at Kirroghtree I had 9 Miles range (Eco) and my mate showed 3 miles. I stayed in E-mtb mode throughout and he switched up and down as required. On past holidays with same software there was never any great difference always within a couple of miles of each other.

Once selected the E-mtb (Old Sport) delivers the minimum amount of power at any given moment spending most of its time around Tour levels of assistance, but if you need more it is delivered instantly and seamlessly by simply pedaling harder or if a full pedal stroke is not possible a good dab is all that is needed to inject power into your ride.

So In unexpected situations, like when around that blind corner the track suddenly gets steep, rocky and technical you are no longer left fumbling for gears and power modes and as long as you are close to being in the correct gear E-mtb will help with the rest, leaving you free to focus on the best lines to take to get up and over.

Highly recommend this update, makes a good motor assist great!

 

[trouty]

Thanks for the feedback , mmmmm it sounds like I need this update before my trip to the Sud Tyrol in 13 days time

is this a rock up to bike shop and they do it in 10 mins or book in for the day .

 

[Japuserid]

That depends on your LBS, assuming they have the tech it actually only takes a few minutes. My local dealer Certini were fantastic, called them in the morning they said to swing by after 4.00 and they did the update there and then, took ten minutes and cost me £15.00. If you can take it to the supplying dealer it's usually free.

Sud Tyrol enjoy!

 

[Deere John]

I called my LBS and asked. He didn't know what I was talking about but said he should call Bosch and ask. So...

Yesterday I was by and got my bike upgraded! Just plug in the programmer thing from computer into the bike computer and then click update. Took a little while. Done!

You notice when you browse through the modes, the "Sport" mode is still there but it displays "eMTB" in the lower row.

I also got the diagnostic report as PDF from the guy. Great, interesting to see all status, full charges, how many percent you have used the modes, and so on.

 

[Deere John]

I have now tried eMTB mode a little and it is great I think.

There are two scenarios:

1) Offroad. Here it is a welcome addition because you often want the sensitivity of the tour mode but with more power.
This new eMTB mode is just that! It feels like tour mode but when you pedal hard it delivers more power. The sport/turbo mode is really bad often because it accelerates too fast. The power is good to have though. This new mode is more dynamic. You get what you put in. Works much smoother.
And if you really need fast acceleration you can always put on turbo.

2) Onroad. Here it works not as good. Depending on what you want. Often I just want to transport myself to the offroad-location. Then I want to be a little lazy and used sport mode because it was a good compromise. Tour could be a little too demanding if you are tired and just want to get on. Because of this I used sport mode alot. But the new eMTB mode is a more natural feel, almost like you bike without motor. But of course, if you turn it off completely, you notice that is not the case at all but more like tour mode but with more power in steep hills. Great for exercising though.

With this in mind. I don't think it consumes the battery too much either. Because you don't accelerate as hard. So I don't think that would be an issue.

Also, I haven't tried so much yet, but I think the walk assist feature has been a little improved. Could be imagination though.

 

[EddiePJ]

Annoyingly the new bike has it fitted as OE.

I still don't want it, still have zero interest in it, and just need to find the time to get it removed.

I prefer to be in full control of the power settings, battery consumption, and not have control taken away from me in respect of sport mode.

 

[Japuserid]

Not sure why you would want to remove it, but I am pretty certain, that once installed there is no way back. At least that is what the dealer told me before I had the update installed.

 

[EddiePJ]

As said, I want full control of the power settings, or more importantly to me, the battery consumption. I don't want it and have no need of it.

Being just software, I'd be very surprised if it can't be removed, but I won't be keeping the bike for long if it can't be removed.

Bosch should have designed the system so that the existing four modes remained as they were, and eMTB mode was a completely separate setting.

 

[Japuserid]

I prefer to be in full control of the power settings, battery consumption, and not have control taken away from me in respect of sport mode.[/QUOTE]

Effectively you still have full control. Eco, Tour, and Turbo are exactly the same the new Emtb mode simply has a wider range of support than the old Sport mode.

Have you actually tried it yet?

 

[Steve A]

Must say i'm with Eddie here. It's a software / firmware update (not upgrade). I wish to have full control of my speed modes, as i do with my speed dongle.
If i can't ride my bike, change mode, gear and still find the right line i shouldn't be riding a bike .

I have an automatic car, but at least and can use the manual shift when i want to, but this system takes over. Not a good idea imho.

 

[EddiePJ]

Effectively you still have full control. Eco, Tour, and Turbo are exactly the same the new Emtb mode simply has a wider range of support than the old Sport mode.

Have you actually tried it yet?

Yes I have.

I don't want or require sport mode altered, I want full control of all settings, and I certainly don't want the extra battery consumption that it creates, which is actually quite significant when we tried a back to back test in the Swiss Alps. I clearly accept that as an extreme example though, and it would be wrong of me to say otherwise.

I'm certainly not the only person that doesn't like it, and I'm not the only person that wants it removed.
There should be the choice as to whether we want or don't want it. If it works for some, then fine, but if doesn't for others, then that should be fine as well.
If this was my first eMTB and it was fitted, then I wouldn't have known any different, but it isn't my first, and I do know differently. I know what I want and don't want, and also what works and doesn't work for me.

edit.. I'm going to leave the system fitted for a month or so, and will add my full thoughts in respect of it, to the following thread. http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/2017-ktm-fogo-271.28756/ Who knows, I might even change my mind about it, but very much doubt it. All being well and good, I should be able to carry out some side by side comparisons, with proven data/stats with graphs to cross reference. Opinions are fine, but facts are better, and for all I know I could prove myself to be completely wrong. Something that I have no issue about doing, as I enjoy the process of getting there and research.
I shall make the test rides as accurate as I can, but frustratingly there is still always going to be variables, such as weather, terrain conditions on the day, and even my own fitness/mental attitude. The biggest variable with be the bikes and gearing, which unless I swap motors, could spoil accurate comparison . I'll have to give that one some thought. If nothing else, it'll be fun trying.

 

[soundwave]

As said, I want full control of the power settings, or more importantly to me, the battery consumption. I don't want it and have no need of it.

Being just software, I'd be very surprised if it can't be removed, but I won't be keeping the bike for long if it can't be removed.

Bosch should have designed the system so that the existing four modes remained as they were, and eMTB mode was a completely separate setting.

i think you just turn it on or off like the lights with the diagnostic software that the dealer has but there must be options for older firmware to be installed like old phones with android ect but given it is bosch and locked down cant say for sure with the displays we have like purion so needs dealers updates to be installed buy them or changed anyway.