Bosch drive unit maintenance kit

[soundwave]

yes you will need a puller to remove it from the shaft if it is not left in the casing or you can tap it off with a hammer.

all the press is is a hydraulic pump so not much to go wrong there but some bits are expensive but a socket set imo can do most of it as what i use on my ses wheel when the bearing needs replacing.

 

[Energizer Bunny]

I was looking for the Bosch kit and noticed that performanceline bearings are now selling them:-

https://www.performancelinebearings.com/product/bosch-motor-service-repair-kit-bdu2xx/

 

[soundwave]

However, if we fit this for you, we will offer our own 12 month Performance Line Bearings parts and labour warranty. Fitting cost £21.00 +p&p


yet if you want a software update from a bosch dealer its 45 quid to plug in a usb cable

 

[Bearing Man]

I did a little video too

 

[Barrio Barranco]

Another great vid Pete...I keep watching these on a regular basis and in 2 yrs time I'll be maybe ready to have a bash!!(Or I'll stick £3 a week in a tin and pay you to do it lol)
Can't that gear with the "bit nobody should touch" be cleaned and regreased or something?
I've got the new "Dayglo green"grease from Bosch and it's not melting out of the bike where I've packed it like SilverHook did. Do you plan to stock it and in bigger tubes than the 20g mine came in??

 

[Bearing Man]

Another great vid Pete...I keep watching these on a regular basis and in 2 yrs time I'll be maybe ready to have a bash!!(Or I'll stick £3 a week in a tin and pay you to do it lol)
Can't that gear with the "bit nobody should touch" be cleaned and regreased or something?
I've got the new "Dayglo green"grease from Bosch and it's not melting out of the bike where I've packed it like SilverHook did. Do you plan to stock it and in bigger tubes than the 20g mine came in??

Thank you for your compliment Barrio. I know what you mean about the grease! I have just taken delivery of the new stuff and was very upset with the size of the tubes. If I find out what it is? I will see about getting larger quantities

 

[Barrio Barranco]

Yeah, I had a long running thread on here about a kit I got from Germany, feel a bit guilty about hassling them(the 20g tube looked nothing like the big one in the advert!)- and they sent another kit but still 20g. I used under a half tube to do the main motor bearing behind the dust deal and filled around the crankshaft to the circlip only not the outer edge. The grease must be more viscous or sticky though, surely must be an alternative grease with same/similar spec?

 

[MikeS]

Can someone explain what the symptoms of a failing bearing would be and if anyone has seen this so far on an Active Line Plus motor
Mike

 

[Barrio Barranco]

Bearingman would be best to advise . My experience tells me it could be any or all of these- change in noise of the motor, potentially play at the cranks, maybe an increase in vibration close to the suspect bearing. It's a good question as with things like this it's likely to be a slow progressive demise that you may not realise has changed. I might video my cranks while I spin them with the chain off as a point of reference for the future. It's like when your car brakes over time lack bite you don't always notice and adjust for it and eventually give them an overhaul and suddenly realise what you were putting up with !!

 

[Bearing Man]

Can someone explain what the symptoms of a failing bearing would be and if anyone has seen this so far on an Active Line Plus motor
Mike

As Barrio says regards noise and vibration, but be a bit cereful, much of this can be caused by poor condition, chain and sprockets, failing pedals, loose crank arms, loose motor bolts etc, etc.
The symptoms of bearing failure will depend on which bearing is failing, but the most common bearings to fail are the main motor bearing and crankshaft bearings. If you hear a grumbling or "coffee grinder" noise, it will normally be the main motor bearing. If you feel play in your crank arms, it could be either crankshaft bearings, main motor bearing or both.
A quick check can be done by slipping the chain off the front sprocket and turn the pedals forward as if you are riding. By doing this, you are turning most of the bearings in the motor, but most importantly you are turning the main motor bearing and can listen for any noise above a quiet whirring. By then turning the pedals backwards, you are now only rotating the crankshaft bearings and freewheel gear bearing, so noise or rough feel here will normally be crankshaft bearings.
Active Line 2nd Gen are virtually identical to Performance Line and fail in the same way (Please remember, most makes of pedelec motors currently fail in the same way, not just Bosch)

 

[Barrio Barranco]

I'm meant to have a 2 yr warranty with my KTM, now 6 months old. But I don't have much time for any of the LBS(I deal with one at work) and I live in the middle of nowhere. My work are about to put me through Velotech Silver/Gold but considering I've been maintaining a fleet of 50+ ageing mountain bikes for 2 years, which get hideously trashed by kids this is a bit irrelevant. I've done all my bike/motorbike/car mechanics over the years (well, the bits I can get to lying on a gravel driveway!) and my e-bike will be the same...I'll learn what I can and do what I can but if my motor starts to play up I'll be sending it to Pete for the full monty as putting it to the LBS means third parties etc- they'll have to do all the work, send the motor away because they'll know less than me probably. And for the cost of it if I send a motor away it'll be for complete overhaul not just one or two bearings...

 

[MikeS]

As Barrio says regards noise and vibration, but be a bit cereful, much of this can be caused by poor condition, chain and sprockets, failing pedals, loose crank arms, loose motor bolts etc, etc.
The symptoms of bearing failure will depend on which bearing is failing, but the most common bearings to fail are the main motor bearing and crankshaft bearings. If you hear a grumbling or "coffee grinder" noise, it will normally be the main motor bearing. If you feel play in your crank arms, it could be either crankshaft bearings, main motor bearing or both.
A quick check can be done by slipping the chain off the front sprocket and turn the pedals forward as if you are riding. By doing this, you are turning most of the bearings in the motor, but most importantly you are turning the main motor bearing and can listen for any noise above a quiet whirring. By then turning the pedals backwards, you are now only rotating the crankshaft bearings and freewheel gear bearing, so noise or rough feel here will normally be crankshaft bearings.
Active Line plus 2nd Gen are virtually identical to Performance Line and fail in the same way (Please remember, most makes of pedelec motors currently fail in the same way, not just Bosch)

Pete - when you say 'play in your crank arms' do you mean outward/inward play or in the direction of rotation. I ask because right from day 1 I noticed that the ActiveLine Plus has a sort of looseness in the direction of rotation - I assumed it was something to do with the take-up of the electric motor drive.
I can't see how the problem I describe is a bearing problem as it comes and goes and hasn't got worse over 300 or 400 miles. Also the resistance effect comes on exactly like the assistance going off - ie gradually over maybe 1.5 seconds. Similar to the time taken for assistance to fully kick in when for instance you switch it from off to Eco. It's almost as if I am getting 'eco in reverse' as subjectively it feels like about the same extra drain on my pedalling as when the bike is working properly and I get the boost from switching eco mode on.
Mike

 

[Bearing Man]

Pete - when you say 'play in your crank arms' do you mean outward/inward play or in the direction of rotation. I ask because right from day 1 I noticed that the ActiveLine Plus has a sort of looseness in the direction of rotation - I assumed it was something to do with the take-up of the electric motor drive.
I can't see how the problem I describe is a bearing problem as it comes and goes and hasn't got worse over 300 or 400 miles. Also the resistance effect comes on exactly like the assistance going off - ie gradually over maybe 1.5 seconds. Similar to the time taken for assistance to fully kick in when for instance you switch it from off to Eco. It's almost as if I am getting 'eco in reverse' as subjectively it feels like about the same extra drain on my pedalling as when the bike is working properly and I get the boost from switching eco mode on.
Mike

Hi Mike, Sorry if my post caused confusion. I accidentally stated Active Line "Plus" Gen 2, I have edited my post to remove "Plus". I actually meant the Bosch older Bosch Active Line. The Plus Gen 3 motor is entirely different internally and although I have taken them apart a few times, I don't see enough of them yet to be familiar with your particular issue. Reading your post though, I would agree that it does not sound bearing related, more electronic if I had to make a guess. It sounds as though the torque sensor, or electronics are struggling to sort out what mode you are in or what assistance to apply?
I have seen these motors with electrical issues already, the photo below is of an Active Line Plus circuit board we removed last week!

 

[MikeS]

Hi Mike, Sorry if my post caused confusion. I accidentally stated Active Line "Plus" Gen 2, I have edited my post to remove "Plus". I actually meant the Bosch older Bosch Active Line. The Plus Gen 3 motor is entirely different internally and although I have taken them apart a few times, I don't see enough of them yet to be familiar with your particular issue. Reading your post though, I would agree that it does not sound bearing related, more electronic if I had to make a guess. It sounds as though the torque sensor, or electronics are struggling to sort out what mode you are in or what assistance to apply?
I have seen these motors with electrical issues already, the photo below is of an Active Line Plus circuit board we removed last week!

That's interesting Pete. I have this vague memory that the problems started after a particularly long climb in the Dales when I wondered if the motor had overheated. On the last bit of the climb in turbo mode it seemed like the assist level had dropped and I wondered if the motor had a self protect feature against overheating. After dropping back to the bottom of the steep bit and allowing the bike a few minutes rest, I was able to do that steep bit again with full assist in turbo mode.
But the drag problem also happens when the whole system is switched off at the display. I think it even happens without the battery connected in, but that seems to blow a hole in my electrical theory so I am going to try and replicate the problem again today without battery fitted. As I have said in another thread though, a dynamo doesn't need a battery and yet it produces exactly the same kind of pedalling resistance that I occasionally feel with my Active Line Plus.
Mike

 

[Bearing Man]

That's interesting Pete. I have this vague memory that the problems started after a particularly long climb in the Dales when I wondered if the motor had overheated. On the last bit of the climb in turbo mode it seemed like the assist level had dropped and I wondered if the motor had a self protect feature against overheating. After dropping back to the bottom of the steep bit and allowing the bike a few minutes rest, I was able to do that steep bit again with full assist in turbo mode.
But the drag problem also happens when the whole system is switched off at the display. I think it even happens without the battery connected in, but that seems to blow a hole in my electrical theory so I am going to try and replicate the problem again today without battery fitted. As I have said in another thread though, a dynamo doesn't need a battery and yet it produces exactly the same kind of pedalling resistance that I occasionally feel with my Active Line Plus.
Mike

So, when your motor is switched off and hard to pedal, your motor is actually feeling even harder to pedal than it would when normally un-assisted?

 

[MikeS]

So, when your motor is switched off and hard to pedal, your motor is actually feeling even harder to pedal than it would when normally un-assisted?

Yes subjectively about 25% harder. Bear in mind though that this is only sometimes. Often, maybe even usually, I can pedal in 7th or 8th gear on level ground at about 20mph and it feels just like an ordinary non-electric bike. At other times I struggle to maintain 10 or 11mph in 5th gear on the same stretch of road (wind conditions similar). This is with it switched to 'off' but of course when I'm doing 20mph it's off anyway.
Mike

 

[Bearing Man]

Yes subjectively about 25% harder. Bear in mind though that this is only sometimes. Often, maybe even usually, I can pedal in 7th or 8th gear on level ground at about 20mph and it feels just like an ordinary non-electric bike. At other times I struggle to maintain 10 or 11mph in 5th gear on the same stretch of road (wind conditions similar). This is with it switched to 'off' but of course when I'm doing 20mph it's off anyway.
Mike

Ok, so the crank has a complete disconnect when it is not on or you are pedalling faster than 15.5mph, so the only "drag" possible here would be through the crankshaft bearings or clutch bearing. It is highly unlikely to be this, especially being an intermittent fault. I am guessing you have checked the wheels for free rotation while this has happened? It's not a brake hanging on intermittently is it?

 

[MikeS]

Ok, so the crank has a complete disconnect when it is not on or you are pedalling faster than 15.5mph, so the only "drag" possible here would be through the crankshaft bearings or clutch bearing. It is highly unlikely to be this, especially being an intermittent fault. I am guessing you have checked the wheels for free rotation while this has happened? It's not a brake hanging on intermittently is it?

Brakes have been checked for heat and they are completely cool. rear wheel certainly rotates freely when held off the ground imeediately after the proble. Will double check the front next time.
What if there is NOT a complete disconnect happening when the system is off or pedalling faster than 15.5. Could something have come loose so that it's floating in and out of being connected?
Mike

 

[Bearing Man]

Brakes have been checked for heat and they are completely cool. rear wheel certainly rotates freely when held off the ground imeediately after the proble. Will double check the front next time.
What if there is NOT a complete disconnect happening when the system is off or pedalling faster than 15.5. Could something have come loose so that it's floating in and out of being connected?
Mike

Mike, I have an Active Line plus motor here, when I get a moment, I will strip it down and see if I can see anything that I think could cause your problem?