Bosch Dongle Options

[robwalley]

I have a Haibike RC29 from 2013 which I assume is a Bosch Gen 1. I have converted to Alfine 11 gears and put a rip off dongle from e-bikeshop. While it's ok, like most I'm not keen on the incorrect reading and the surge effect at 16mph when it kicks in which I assume is down to the assist slowly reducing as it approaches 15.5mph.

has anyone tried any of these products from http://www.ebiketuning.com which I think is German. Some of these look much better.

 

[robwalley]

The The JUM-Ped looks like a hacked programmer which doesn't need access to the motor and if accurate looks great but pricey and limited to my gen1 Bosch.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I didn't think you needed a dongle on the 2013 bikes. Did you try the magnet on the back of the pedal trick?

 

[PatMcrotch]

Ive got the SX2 for my Haibike Sduro full 9 (yamaha). Works great.

Interesting they now have a new option for my bike...pumaped2 with smart phone app.

 

[soundwave]

i use the bad ass dongle on my bike but its a 2014 so gen 2 motor.

best thing is can be removed in seconds and hit reset and its back to factory settings.

try the magnet on the pedal like d8 says n save 100 quid

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

While it's ok, like most I'm not keen on the incorrect reading and the surge effect at 16mph when it kicks in which I assume is down to the assist slowly reducing as it approaches 15.5mph.

Should be no surge at all. Try moving the magnet 3-4mm closer to the hub to resolve this.

The magnet trick on the crank only works on the very first Bosch system, about a year prior to your RC29.

We have a switchable kit now that reads the correct speed reading too. But we only make it for our bikes the later Performance drive system.

 

[soundwave]

why will you not sell dongles to all then? not if you cant get them same as the rest of the parts lol.

 

[Wander]

... and the surge effect at 16mph when it kicks in which I assume is down to the assist slowly reducing as it approaches 15.5mph.

Get no surge at all when I ride my bike with the dongle, there again it was set up by Martin@e-bikeshop.

Wondering if what's happening with yours is you are getting to 15.5 then the motor is starting to cut out then when say you get to 16 it cuts back in again giving the surge effect. It's probably all in the set up, best to follow Martin's advice above.

 

[robwalley]

Get no surge at all when I ride my bike with the dongle, there again it was set up by Martin@e-bikeshop.

Wondering if what's happening with yours is you are getting to 15.5 then the motor is starting to cut out then when say you get to 16 it cuts back in again giving the surge effect. It's probably all in the set up, best to follow Martin's advice above.

That's exactly what I think is happening and I can't see that this has anything to do with setup. Surely the clever speed and torque combination sensors will drop the assist as you reach 15.5mph at which point the dongle suddenly tells the controller it's now doing 8mph and off you go again with extra torque. Surely this is working as it should.

 

[soundwave]

id move the wheel magnet around and see if that stops it and get it as close as you can to the sensor.

 

[robwalley]

id move the wheel magnet around and see if that stops it and get it as close as you can to the sensor.

I will try this tomorrow and report back but would also like to know why this should work?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

On the early Bosch systems and some of the later ones, this low cost trick works. The controller gets the speed signal from the wheel speed sensor. If you put it on the crank, the pulse frequency is much lower, so the controller thinks that you're going slower than you actually are. Therefore, it allows you to go at a higher speed.

After a while, the Bosch programmers got wind of people doing that, so they changed the software to prevent it, though I saw somewhere that it's working again on later Bosch systems. I haven't had confirmation of that, but, as it doesn't cost anything, it's worth trying it before splashing out on a dongle.

 

[Wander]

That's exactly what I think is happening and I can't see that this has anything to do with setup. Surely the clever speed and torque combination sensors will drop the assist as you reach 15.5mph at which point the dongle suddenly tells the controller it's now doing 8mph and off you go again with extra torque. Surely this is working as it should.

Nope! Well not as I understand it.

Assistance goes down as you reach 15.5 mph then cuts out completely so you are getting that falling off a cliff effect. On mine you can see the speed half on the display when you reach 12 or 13 m.p.h. Result is completely smooth transition from non dongled assist -> dongled assist.

 

[robwalley]

On the early Bosch systems and some of the later ones, this low cost trick works. The controller gets the speed signal from the wheel speed sensor. If you put it on the crank, the pulse frequency is much lower, so the controller thinks that you're going slower than you actually are. Therefore, it allows you to go at a higher speed.

After a while, the Bosch programmers got wind of people doing that, so they changed the software to prevent it, though I saw somewhere that it's working again on later Bosch systems. I haven't had confirmation of that, but, as it doesn't cost anything, it's worth trying it before splashing out on a dongle.

I was aware of this and my later classic has the 1:1 error if you try this or with a dongle have a rear sprocket exactly half the chainwheel. Not an issue with the Alfine as the internal ratios are odd.

 

[robwalley]

Nope! Well not as I understand it.

Assistance goes down as you reach 15.5 mph then cuts out completely so you are getting that falling off a cliff effect. On mine you can see the speed half on the display when you reach 12 or 13 m.p.h. Result is completely smooth transition from non dongled assist -> dongled assist.

Well the original distance between magnet and sensor is around 6-7mm and my cutover was around 16mph. This morning with spacers I dropped the distance to 2mm and I think it's permanently in half speed from the go, this is damn strange and I will up the distance a bit, but also get a mount for my phone to check speed accuracy. Anyone know the optimum distance for this magnet, I did a quick search and found nothing.

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

Well the original distance between magnet and sensor is around 6-7mm and my cutover was around 16mph. This morning with spacers I dropped the distance to 2mm and I think it's permanently in half speed from the go, this is damn strange and I will up the distance a bit, but also get a mount for my phone to check speed accuracy. Anyone know the optimum distance for this magnet, I did a quick search and found nothing.

You dont need to change the distance here. Just move it up and down the spoke as suggested if you read my previous post.

 

[robwalley]

You dont need to change the distance here. Just move it up and down the spoke as suggested if you read my previous post.

Ta for that, misunderstood the change, position and mph is spot on, just the SX2 is intermittent. It will not operate for the first few miles of a run then suddenly start to work, but at the higher speed of around 16mph. Does the dongle work on the stand without torque, it would be much easier to test various things, I realise the assist will not work on the stand, but the dongle should still kick in??

Note : just tested the wiring on the plug behind the dongle with a continuity test which passed with flying colours, nice bleep when the magnet passes. so must be the dongle, will try a bigger ride tomorrow. Out of warranty anyway. Purchased and fitted May 2014

 

[robwalley]

You dont need to change the distance here. Just move it up and down the spoke as suggested if you read my previous post.

Thanks Martin, moving the magnet towards the front of the sensor solves the intermittent issue, considering the sensor is a reed switch (I thought) it appears that while the speed sensor requires a very small latching time the dongle requires a little longer and the magnetic field is better towards the front of the sensor.

The kick in speed has not changed, never has since new. Checked and double checked at 16.4mph which is why the small drop off as it approaches, not a major issue. Perhaps an earlier design, the lower kick in others report at around 12-13mph makes more sense for a smoother operation. Perhaps Martin knows more, just saying it appears to be working as designed.

 

[SRS]

It won't be a reed switch. Hall effect or inductive coil, most likely.
Moving the magnet up or down the spoke does normally change the cut in speed.

 

[robwalley]

It won't be a reed switch. Hall effect or inductive coil, most likely.
Moving the magnet up or down the spoke does normally change the cut in speed.

Fairly sure the dongle is iffy, the only thing I get from moving it is working or not working. Currently not working wherever I put it. Losing patience, will try again when calmer. Any chance of a dodgy magnet?

Actually someone confirm this should work in the stand without and assist, this is how I am testing, not doing a run every half millimeter I move the magnet.