Bosch Crank DIY

SRS

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 30, 2012
848
349
South Coast
Hi all

Hypothetical question at the moment.

10kg, non electric hybrid. Rim and not disk brake setup. 700C wheels. Black hubs, spkes and rims.

Wish to add a read hub drive (500w?) throttle control only. Would prefer the hub drive to be black an not silver. Must be good for 22 mph, assisted on the flat.


Down tube and not rack battery.


Do not wish for any speed restiction. Flat distance capability of 15mph with pedal effort put in.

What would you buy?

Something I am thinking about, any advice appreciated.


Sorry, don't know why thread has wrong title and cannot seem to change it.
 
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banbury frank

Banned
Jan 13, 2011
1,565
5
Hi We have a 500 watt rear motor kit with 48 volt 10 or 15 AH battery option

we have a kit fitted to a demo bike to try in Banbury

same as the link below but with a 22mph 500 watt controller controller Same price

Commuter Baby


Give me a call
Frank
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
The motor's easy enough: A 500w Bafang CST will give a speed of about 25mph at 36v. The problem will be finding a suitable battery. You'll need one capable of giving at least 25 amps. Most frame tube batteries struggle with 15 amps. You could make your own out of a piece of square plastic drain-pipe and fill it with a pair of Zippy 8000maH 5S lipos from Hobbyking. If you don't want to spend so much, you can get the Bafang 201 rpm 36v BPM and run it at 48v with a pair of 8000maH 6S packs for a speed of about 22mph.

The CST setup would cost about £450 with batteries and the BPM about £350. With the CST you have to build your own wheel or get someone to do it for you.
 
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C

Cyclezee

Guest
Hi SRS,

Might be better to ditch this thread and start a new one at same time place link to the new thread in this one:confused:
 

103Alex1

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2012
2,228
67
Frank's got a turn-key 48v package which is very neat - give him a call. Would be quick, easy to fit and come with a compact handlebar-mounted LCD display to regulate power modes, cruise control button etc. for a grand to £1,200 depending on battery if you want it all on a plate to fit in an afternoon. At 48v, 10Ah battery gives you 480Wh and 15Ah 720Wh. The bike will be a real performer and involve very little work.

Just to expand a bit on d8veh's post above, the 500W CST bits cost me about £550 after duty and shipping (DHL) last month with a 20Ah battery and a few extras. Kept my full range of gears (27sp) by using the CST as there's no freewheel needed.

Battery will be in a frame triangle box (making this to measure - will hopefully end up something along the lines of this, albeit in silver colourway and on a hardtail MTB rather than a full-sus - http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/12481-rocky-mountain-element-conversion-3.html#post150117 ). Battery slots between seat tube and down tube but there's space in there for controller and some extra bits like in-built lighting, accessory 12v charging socket circuitry etc. if you wanted anything like that.

Built the motor into wheel (it isn't supplied built) and installing / upgrading a number of features over the motor and BMS accessories, estimated total cost about £850 - £900 for upgraded spec / extras including in-built CREE T6 lighting (which you don't get with Xipi kit), upgraded connectors with chassis -mounted battery charger socket on the box, waterproof accessory circuit (also not on Kube kit), cable glands, in-line hydraulic brake cutoff switch (for combi-shifters - likely simpler/cheaper if separate brake levers), double-throttle cruise control, master switch (can be key or toggle), modified torque arm etc... all being specced, sourced and bought for me to assemble and install on top of the basic kit).

Would be about £150 more with Speedict or Cycle Analyst to hit a grand or so total (but I looked at both and decided not to bother for now - a cycle computer is £6 - £45 and a numerical voltmeter battery monitor about £5, with all speed management done from the double-throttle cruise control).

Quite a bit of modding involved and basic tools for soldering, drilling, cutting etc. may well all be needed depending on what you do. d8veh has been providing a load of help to put it all together, some of which is up on here but more besides owing to my inexperience. Could cut out lots of bells & whistles to simplify and shave down costs considerably (e.g. get triangle bag in place of a box, use cheaper materials etc.) ... but you can have it all the way you want it within reason with the full self build approach ... with the notable exception of a handy LCD if no Speedict or CA used - and with the exception of a top-end programmable controller.

Top-end programmable controller to work with that setup would set you back £200-£400 (depending on whether Cycle Analyst is included) in addition, and likely some longish delivery delays.
 
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SRS

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 30, 2012
848
349
South Coast
Hi We have a 500 watt rear motor kit with 48 volt 10 or 15 AH battery option

we have a kit fitted to a demo bike to try in Banbury

same as the link below but with a 22mph 500 watt controller controller Same price

Commuter Baby


Give me a call
Frank
Frank, I suspect that the weight of your kits may be a issue.

What kg would I be looking at?
 

SRS

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 30, 2012
848
349
South Coast
The motor's easy enough: A 500w Bafang CST will give a speed of about 25mph at 36v. The problem will be finding a suitable battery. You'll need one capable of giving at least 25 amps. Most frame tube batteries struggle with 15 amps. You could make your own out of a piece of square plastic drain-pipe and fill it with a pair of Zippy 8000maH 5S lipos from Hobbyking. If you don't want to spend so much, you can get the Bafang 201 rpm 36v BPM and run it at 48v with a pair of 8000maH 6S packs for a speed of about 22mph.

The CST setup would cost about £450 with batteries and the BPM about £350. With the CST you have to build your own wheel or get someone to do it for you.
Having listened to your reply and searched other threads, seems like the 500w Bafang CST is the favourite. Rocky Mountain looks great by the way.

103alex, many thanks for all your input, costs and advice. May be back to ask specific questions when I progress this project.

As a note, I have a decent workshop with, lathe, pillar drills, pressed and welding gears. Electronics bits and bobs so fairly well sorted for any fiddling that may be required.

Think what I'll do is get the motor, controller and throttle in, worry about the battery later.
May even initially have the battery in a rucksack.

Is a programmable controller of benefit to me? Not sure what parameters would be programmable.

If anyone could provide me with URL of site for these motors and controllers, I'd be most grateful.
 

103Alex1

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2012
2,228
67
Think what I'll do is get the motor, controller and throttle in, worry about the battery later. May even initially have the battery in a rucksack.
If you get a battery from China together with your motor / controller the shipping can be a lot cheaper (well it was when I dummy-quoted it anyway). Add about $50 to the effective cost if you buy it later unless you are lucky. You can check battery weights on BMS website if you buy from them (just browse the site - links below). Their CSTs work well with 26"ers at 36v .. not sure quite so optimal with 700C / 29ers ....

You might get better climbing performance with a BPM kit motor on a 700C rather than a CST (there are 201rpm or 328rpm versions of the BPM - you need a 201rpm - whereas CSTs from BMS run at 270rpm). BPM kits are much cheaper too and no wheel building as you get an assembled kit ready to fit but need a freewheel.... however ... I think they are silver despite the photo but might be wrong :confused: d8veh will know and also tell you much more than I've taken in on these kits and controllers !

Make sure you order any extra bits you need at the time if you buy from China ... much cheaper and quicker than having to go back and order stuff you forgot later !

Is a programmable controller of benefit to me? Not sure what parameters would be programmable.

If anyone could provide me with URL of site for these motors and controllers, I'd be most grateful.
On the programmable controllers, talk to Frank. Otherwise these are the CST motors :

Search - BMSBATTERY

(6 of the 350W still available, 500W sold out about a week ago - but they might be able to get you one or might re-stock .. you could ask them)

This non-programmable controller works well with the 500W CST :

KU123 500W 12Mosfets High Speed Controller - BMSBATTERY

... and this throttle is fine & cheap or comes free with the BPM kit if you specify it when ordering :

Thumb Level Throttle - BMSBATTERY

If you want twist throttles I have some I ordered before deciding to fit thumb ones (fitting GC-3 Ergon grips on the bike so can't use them)

This is the Bafang kit :

Bafang BPM 36V500W Rear Driving Bike Conversion Kit - BMSBATTERY

As a note, I have a decent workshop with, lathe, pillar drills, pressed and welding gears. Electronics bits and bobs so fairly well sorted for any fiddling that may be required.
That'll make a world of difference. I started out with what tools I had on the other side of the country and no opportunity of getting to them so had to buy a load of basic bike tools as well as build tools. About £200-£300+ on tools & bits already, some doubling up stuff I already own :( ... and still missing tools which would make building in so much quicker and easier. However, managed to retrieve my power drill, jigsaw and sander for a few weeks today and heading home with them (finally) tomorrow so that's really cheered me up :)
 
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D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
You can get the motors, controllers, throttles etc from either Greenbikekit or BMSBattery, but for a 500W motor, you need a battery able to supply 1500w, which is over 30amps at 36v, so you can forget anything less than 15aH. My favourite battery is the 20aH 36v shrink tube battery from BMS battery, which works out at about £250 with duty and shipping. It can give the 30 amps that 500w motors need and it's very light for its power and it's not too big. Their 12aH Headway battery packs would work as well, but they're much less capacity for the same weight and size, although they last longer.
AS Alex pointed out, you need the KU123 or CON123 controller, which are the same, plus one or two of their torque arms. I believe both suppliers do the BPM2 motor if you ask, which is also black. It has a free-wheel rather than a cassette. With any of the BPMs or other (than CST) 500w motors.you need to get a free-wheel with 11T top gear, which'll cost at least £25 - available from Cyclezee.

One other thing, if you have a bike with cable brakes - discs or rim - you should get a couple of the "hidden wire brake sensors at the same time as your motor.
 

SRS

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 30, 2012
848
349
South Coast
You can get the motors, controllers, throttles etc from either Greenbikekit or BMSBattery, but for a 500W motor, you need a battery able to supply 1500w, which is over 30amps at 36v, so you can forget anything less than 15aH. My favourite battery is the 20aH 36v shrink tube battery from BMS battery, which works out at about £250 with duty and shipping. It can give the 30 amps that 500w motors need and it's very light for its power and it's not too big. Their 12aH Headway battery packs would work as well, but they're much less capacity for the same weight and size, although they last longer.
AS Alex pointed out, you need the KU123 or CON123 controller, which are the same, plus one or two of their torque arms. I believe both suppliers do the BPM2 motor if you ask, which is also black. It has a free-wheel rather than a cassette. With any of the BPMs or other (than CST) 500w motors.you need to get a free-wheel with 11T top gear, which'll cost at least £25 - available from Cyclezee.

One other thing, if you have a bike with cable brakes - discs or rim - you should get a couple of the "hidden wire brake sensors at the same time as your motor.
Thanks to both of you, most useful information. I'll take on board comments and a good look at all options. Had not really considered the maximum current requirements not being met by smaller batteries.

Trying to, design a system to keep the weight to the minimum possible, even if ultimate mileage is a little limited.

Not entirely sure if brake cutoff switches are required?

My current throttle bike does not have them. It does however have disk brakes that would overpower the motor should a fault occur or a throttle jam happened.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
Disk brakes will struggle to overpower a 500w geared motor, and if they do, you'll be seeing a lot of smoke coming out of your controller and motor. If you can,you should fit cut-off switches, which are dead simple to fit to cable brakes.

If you want lightweight and 500W, it has to be lipos for battery. There's also A123 cells, but they're pretty expensive.
 

SRS

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 30, 2012
848
349
South Coast
Disk brakes will struggle to overpower a 500w geared motor, and if they do, you'll be seeing a lot of smoke coming out of your controller and motor. If you can,you should fit cut-off switches, which are dead simple to fit to cable brakes.

If you want lightweight and 500W, it has to be lipos for battery. There's also A123 cells, but they're pretty expensive.
Thanks, switches it will be. I'll investigate the A123 cells, depends on cash flow at the time but the idea would be the lightest possible.