Bosch classic to Bosch CX

[BootsDave]

Tom, I want to buy from a specialist dealer that knows about ebikes. There's a Kalkhoff/Focus dealer an hour away, but from what I've read on the forum, I won't risk that make. That leaves me with two dealers in Toulouse which is almost two hours away. One is primarily Haibike, the other does Haibike and Cube. They both have a few French makes which are aimed at city use.

IR772 - To my mind, the display looks too fragile on the Yamaha Haibikes. Apart from the new PWX models with the integrated display, and they're a bit over budget. I've set a limit of €3000.

Trevor, if I can manage the roads in Tour mode with the CX, then the range should be ok. I was planning to go for a 500wh battery, but was hoping to increase my range on the road a bit.

 

[Tom Rae]

Another French make worthy of consideration might be Moustache? True the dealers are important however so is getting a bike that will do what you want! Some of the criticisms I have read on the forums are rather sweeping and makes/brands and dealers seem to be condemned out of hand without detailed consideration.
I think your use would benefit from the ability to change to a smaller front sprocket for specific climbs and back to a larger one for road use. What matters is maintaining your cadence up hill and down dale so that the motor input is getting a "fair" ratio which will have a less negative effect on the battery range. Put more of your effort in and you will get longer battery life and lower gearing will help you achieve this, that said, there are not many e mtb's that I have seen that have a front shift option, I was looking for a similar requirement for bike packing trips together with a larger battery. Happy hunting and house looks braw

 

[anotherkiwi]

@BootsDave You are going to need a hill climber in that neck of the woods! Nothing Figeac?

 

[Trevormonty]

Tom, I want to buy from a specialist dealer that knows about ebikes. There's a Kalkhoff/Focus dealer an hour away, but from what I've read on the forum, I won't risk that make. That leaves me with two dealers in Toulouse which is almost two hours away. One is primarily Haibike, the other does Haibike and Cube. They both have a few French makes which are aimed at city use.

IR772 - To my mind, the display looks too fragile on the Yamaha Haibikes. Apart from the new PWX models with the integrated display, and they're a bit over budget. I've set a limit of €3000.

Trevor, if I can manage the roads in Tour mode with the CX, then the range should be ok. I was planning to go for a 500wh battery, but was hoping to increase my range on the road a bit.

For road rides, simplest way to extend your battery range is to topup it up while having coffee at cafe. The cost of spare battery will buy you a lot of coffees.

My wife's shimano STEPs drive has advantage here as it will charge battery to 80% in 2hrs. A 40 minute charge typically gives is 25%. Enough that she can finish ride in normal assist (tour ) and not worry about battery range.

 

[BootsDave]

After today's ride, I am certain that the ability to change gearing is essential. I had to stop twice on the climb for a breather! See post in photo and ride thread.

 

[Tom Rae]

BootsDave, I haven't seen a Bosch powered e mtb that enable a different gear set, ie a front derailleur option, probably because of the drive sprocket size. I think some Yamaha, Shimano and Brose powered bikes can have that option.

Sorry, I have just read SoundWave's post on another thread of an optional double chain ring for Bosch which would also help. It is on this thread http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/is-it-worth-spending-the-extra.26651/page-2

 

[RobF]

After today's ride, I am certain that the ability to change gearing is essential. I had to stop twice on the climb for a breather! See post in photo and ride thread.

Some challenging gradients on that ride, not least because of the terrain.

The CX motor is perkier than the Classic, but the difference is not great and I wonder if it will be sufficient to make the difference between having to stop for a breather and being able to ride all the way up.

 

[Croxden]

You only stop to admire the view.

 

[Trevormonty]

Lowering gearing would be cheapest option, if you can achieve 15% reduction by changing chainring that would be easiest option.

11-40 10spd cassettes are also available to give 10% lower gear.

The other option is changing to 1x11spd group set. A 11-42 or 11-46 will give you an 15-20% lower gear compared to your current 11-36 without losing top gear.

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/sram-nx-1-11-speed-upgrade-kit-532780/wg_id-391

There is also XT 11-46 for $184.

I changed my wife's STEPs chainring from 44 to 38t. Made huge difference on steep hills it was struggling with.

The other advantage of lower gears is increase range by able to climb in lower assist level. Of course you have reduced speed, don't get something for nothing.

 

[D8ve]

Gear hub?

 

[IR772]

I am amazed that any eMTBs struggles to climb hills.

Certainly to the extent of needing to stop for a breather, mine on maximum assistance is like some one else has taken over.

I agree with Croxden, I only stop to admire the views.

 

[BootsDave]

I find that the pace that I need to keep up is just too much for long climbs. If I try to go slower, I just lose momentum. Lower gearing would hopefully mean I could go at a steadier pace.
Trevor, I just can't decide whether it's worth spending money on my 4 year old bike? My battery is down about 10% compared to my wife's year old battery, so that's something else I'll have to consider.

 

[Gubbins]

I find that the pace that I need to keep up is just too much for long climbs. If I try to go slower, I just lose momentum. Lower gearing would hopefully mean I could go at a steadier pace.
Trevor, I just can't decide whether it's worth spending money on my 4 year old bike? My battery is down about 10% compared to my wife's year old battery, so that's something else I'll have to consider.

I had this same problem with my Classic powered HT. I found I had to maintain a higher speed than was comfortable because the cadence became too low to climb at a sensible pace and the motor would lose power. I swapped the 42t ring for a 38t which was the only option but it didnt make much difference. My next bike had the Performance/CX motor which came with a 17t front which I swapped for a 15t which made climbing much easier at a slower pace. Buying and changing the front ring is easy and inexpensive and there are many options available and you dont necessarily need to change the cassette. Current bike came with 11-42 and a 17 which is fine for going steady on long steep climbs, especially when riding with an un-powered companion.

 

[Trevormonty]

I find that the pace that I need to keep up is just too much for long climbs. If I try to go slower, I just lose momentum. Lower gearing would hopefully mean I could go at a steadier pace.
Trevor, I just can't decide whether it's worth spending money on my 4 year old bike? My battery is down about 10% compared to my wife's year old battery, so that's something else I'll have to consider.

It maybe time to up grade. You won't be disappointed in CX drive.

The other plus is Bosch should support it for >5yrs given how many are out there.

 

[RobF]

You won't be disappointed in CX drive.

Er, at the risk of repeating myself, if the OP cannot get up hills without stopping on a Bosch Classic, there's no guarantee he will be able to on a CX.

I like my Bosch bikes, but I'm not sure they are suitable for the OP.

A higher powered pedal only sensor bike would be better.

 

[Gubbins]

Er, at the risk of repeating myself, if the OP cannot get up hills without stopping on a Bosch Classic, there's no guarantee he will be able to on a CX.

I like my Bosch bikes, but I'm not sure they are suitable for the OP.

A higher powered pedal only sensor bike would be better.

Sorry but I disagree here.. My lowest gear on my Scott Classic was so high that on a long steep hill I was forced into working hard to keep the bike above 8mph or so because if I went much slower the cadence was so low the motor would loose power, whereas with the cx system it is easy to lower the overall gearing to enable hill climbing at low speed with a higher cadence. I know exactly what the OP is talking about, just find it hard to put into words.
My classic lowest gear was 42Fx36R.
My CX has 17F (17x2.5=42.5) x 44 which in itself is much lower, but for £20 or so I can change it to 15F (15x2.5=37.5) x 44 which is lower still.
I can now climb at a much lower speed if I need to which is much easier to do.
Just looked on ebay and a 14t is only £12.

 

[soundwave]

there is a 13t but they want 50 quid for it

 

[RobF]

Sorry but I disagree here.. My lowest gear on my Scott Classic was so high that on a long steep hill I was forced into working hard to keep the bike above 8mph or so because if I went much slower the cadence was so low the motor would loose power, whereas with the cx system it is easy to lower the overall gearing to enable hill climbing at low speed with a higher cadence. I know exactly what the OP is talking about, just find it hard to put into words.
My classic lowest gear was 42Fx36R.
My CX has 17F (17x2.5=42.5) x 44 which in itself is much lower, but for £20 or so I can change it to 15F (15x2.5=37.5) x 44 which is lower still.
I can now climb at a much lower speed if I need to which is much easier to do.
Just looked on ebay and a 14t is only £12.

Aren't you mixing the effects of motors and gearing?

Lower gears could be fitted to the Classic bike.

I put a smaller ring on the front of my Rose, and a larger one on the Alfine 11 hub at the back.

 

[BootsDave]

Rob, I think if I was riding on tarmac I could manage it. With the rocky climb, I felt like my speed was too high. From what others have said, it seems lower gearing would help. I like the way the Bosch system rides like a normal bike, how does a pedal only sensor bike feel?

 

[Gubbins]

Aren't you mixing the effects of motors and gearing?

Lower gears could be fitted to the Classic bike.

I put a smaller ring on the front of my Rose, and a larger one on the Alfine 11 hub at the back.

Not easily.. There are only 2 options on the classic front 42 or 38. I bought a 38T but it rubbed on the chain guard when in the lowest gear, plus it was much more difficult to change.
But yes you are right is is all about the gearing, unless the CX motor gives more torque at low rpm's than the classic.