Bionx kit in the UK

I am surprised there are no Bionx dealers in this country. This looks like a nice reliable kit and seems to be the system of choice for a lot of North American Ebikers.

Does anyone know the reason they are not sold here?. I am sure there would be a market here for such a kit.

Martin

One problem is that the original and best is a 350 watt system which is illegal here. They can supply a UK/Euro legal 250 watt version, but at risk of causing yet another dispute, it's generally regarded as lacking quite a lot in comparison.

Another problem is the battery price. The last time I looked around a year ago, the price in the USA was 900 dollars, that's roughly £450 currently. It seems to be quite a good battery from experience so far, but that's a big price by any standards.

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Disputes? surely not:rolleyes: .

I have noticed dealers selling the Heinzmann kit in road legal and 'off road' forms, maybe they could do the same with this.

Martin

a retailer could sell the upmarket version with a little plug-in on the throttle lead which minimises the power output by one third, therefore the specification would be in order. alternatively just as a cross country bike!

how do you know the battery price-is it possible to buy without a battery from somewhere?

I don't think there's any reason as such why there are no UK dealers - just no-one has struck a deal with Bionx to represent them in the UK. Perhaps its surprising, but it just shows its an immature market. It might be an opportunity for someone.

Frank

 

how do you know the battery price-is it possible to buy without a battery from somewhere?

I don't see why not, you could contact the BionX people in Canada to ask. They sell direct to the UK.

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Here in Canada the Bionx dealers are regular bike shops that sell top end bikes. The dealers see an advantage to being able to equip most bikes they sell with this system. I would approach a bike shop and give them the Bionx website and see if they are interested. If you order directly from Bionx they want it to be delivered to a bike shop for set up.

The high end bike shops like this system because it retains the handling characteristics of the bikes it is installed on.

Once a 350 W system is installed the only way of knowing it is not 250 watt system ( by looking at it) is the small 36V sticker on the battery. The motor has no markings and the throttle is available as an option on the 250.

I am not suggesting that anyone would buy this illegal system in the UK .......Just as no one would remove the speed restriction on their ebike.... ;)

You can buy just the motor from a dealer but you would be missing the great console that allows so much adjustment by entering codes for...Max speed assist or throttle, wheel size (rpm) ,speed motor will start, battery diagnostics etc. ( I have collected a few codes not listed in the manual!)

The battery is expensive but seems very long lived in my case of almost 2 years. (Flecc, I just checked a site and the price has increased to $1045 CAD ! I thought it would be going down.)

OHM are using the motor and console on their new bikes but have elected to use a battery by MOLICELL. It will be interesting to see how this bike fairs when tested by extra energy in the spring.

If you search Google.fr you will find French dealers selling at much the same price as North American shops but you will not have to worry about import VAT, duty and brokerage.

The batteries are very expensive, I think, because the box comes with quite a lot of electronics in it.

I decided not to buy Bionx because not being a sports cyclist I do not need the "training" settings (the fancy name for the regeneration system) when the rider soon learns that it takes a lot more energy to produce electricity than it does to use it. For me therefore the extra electronics would serve no purpose and would just be a further technical liability. They also probably increase the price quite a bit.

Here in Canada the Bionx dealers are regular bike shops that sell top end bikes.The dealers see an advantage to being able to equip most bikes they sell with this system.I would approach a bike shop and give them the Bionx website and see if they are interested. .

That might work, I think some of the 'normal' bike shops might think it too much hassle and may not see the potential though. It is still a niche market over here.

Maybe somewhere like 50 cycles may be interested, although they have probably got plenty on at the moment, selling other things!.

Martin

 

The battery is expensive but seems very long lived in my case of almost 2 years. (Flecc, I just checked a site and the price has increased to $1045 CAD ! I thought it would be going down.)

Ouch, that's over £518 pounds today.

Although it incorporates electronics as Rooel has said, so do all the other Li-ions, examples: eZee £280, Panasonic £306, Wisper £300 including charger, so it's one heck of a price and very few UK customers will pay that sort of money for a battery.

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Edited January 20, 200818 yr by flecc

Edited January 20, 200818 yr by Joe

I decided not to buy Bionx because not being a sports cyclist I do not need the "training" settings (the fancy name for the regeneration system) when the rider soon learns that it takes a lot more energy to produce electricity than it does to use it.....

Before I bought the Bionx system that is what I thought but when you drive it and see the benefits in braking power and how you can save battery power buy using regen 1 or 2 when going down a hill it becomes a real benefit. (I sometimes use regen 3 or 4 and pedal when going down hill)

Ouch, that's over £518 pounds today.

 

Although it incorporates electronics as Rooel has said, so do all the other Li-ions, examples: eZee £280, Panasonic £306, Wisper £300 including charger, so it's one heck of a price and very few UK customers will pay that sort of money for a battery.

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I agree that price is very high. I do not know if it is because the Sony Li-Mn batteries used are just that much more than the batteries used by the other brands listed.

From reading the comments of other Li-ion brands on this forum I think I would be ready to buy my third battery. My original battery has had no discernable drop in power and still shows over 41 volts when the diagnostic is run. I sure hope it continues to perform....especially at those prices.

Yes, the record with them is good, as with the Panasonic ones. It seems the Japanese have a better grasp on designing Li-ion manganese than the Chinese, at a price of course.

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Like Canadian Cadence, I really like the regeneration feature, although it was of no real interest when I was working out what to buy. I took a tumble a while back and didn't realise for some time that I'd damaged the connector for the regeneration to be activated by the brake lever. After a while, it broke entirely and these last couple of weeks I've really missed the huge improvement it gives with braking, especially in the wet when it takes the V brakes time to bite. I finally got round to fixing it today - but I doubt it will have the effect of ensuring a dry week

My battery is also still showing 41V in the diagnostic mode, and I've had the kit since September 2006. Fingers crossed it will last for a while yet as although I'm really pleased with the whole setup, I'd rather not have to buy another battery just yet - when I bought the kit, I hoped that prices would drop by the time I needed to buy a replacement. Still, if not, c'est la vie. It's saved me a fair bit of money in bus fares and allowed me to get rid of the car, plus work pay me 15p for every mile of my commute - 13 mile round trip, so it all comes in handy!

Flecc, I've been meaning to ask - is it OK to partially charge a li-ion battery (or any battery come to that) or is it best to let them run through a full re-charge?

Thanks,

Nick

Edited January 20, 200818 yr by Nick

Bought My Bionx from an RV Dealer

Here in Canada the Bionx dealers are regular bike shops that sell top end bikes. The dealers see an advantage to being able to equip most bikes they sell with this system. I would approach a bike shop and give them the Bionx website and see if they are interested. If you order directly from Bionx they want it to be delivered to a bike shop for set up.

Here in Colorado, USA, I bought my Bionx kit from Bird RV, a small company that rents Recreational Vehicles (Motor Homes) and sells electric bicycles. Many people fly to Denver and then rent an RV and vacation in the Rockies. A natural sideline to this business was to sell or rent bicycles so that when people had set up their RV in a campground, they could use a bicycle to get around. Well, the RV crowd includes many people who are not all that physically fit, so the next step was to sell or rent electric bicycles. Bird RV sells Bionx kits and Bionx kits mounted on several types of bicycles. They also sold Giant pedelecs for a while. I was lucky enough to be able to ride a bike with the Bionx kit on it before buying the kit. I was also fortunate to find that the dealer would discount the 24 volt 250W Lithium Ion kit. I think that most of his customers wanted the 350W version. I am quite happy with the 250W kit as my main use of the assist is on the final one mile long, 8% grade hill that I climb on my way to work. The generation feature works very well for me. I ride most of the way home with the generation turned on to the second level. By using the assist sparingly and using the generation on the downhills on the way home, I went 380 miles without recharging the battery from my charger. Last week on a cold day I rode into work using the assist for most of the ride and then couldn't totally recharge the battery on the way home. So I broke down and put the battery on the charger.

It seems that Bionx does want their kit sold by a knowledgable dealer. They give the dealer some codes to set that they do not document in the installation guide that the buyer gets. These codes can set the maximum regeneration level, the sensitivity of the controller to the signal from the strain guage, the speed at which the assist kicks in, and some other things.

I was a little worried about using the regeneration on a long downhill, but did use it all the way down the 7 mile descent through Deer Creek Canyon outside of the Southwest side of Denver. This road descends from 7200 ft. elevation to 5700 ft. in about seven miles. I stopped at the bottom and felt the plastic battery case. It did not feel warm. With 500 miles on the unit, I've had no problem and the battery still charges up to 28.9 volts, just like it did when it was new.

John

BionX in Europe

I failed to make any meaningful contact with any of the alleged european suppliers (and I am not sure they supply the 350W kit anyway). Also, didn't seem to be any price advantage over importing from the USA (although there might be a potential for savings on the shipping cost). US suppliers have been forthcoming in advice etc - and it helps that they speak a language generally undersatndable to Brits

The price does seem high but personally i decided that for one of the best kits available you have to pay up or wair several years for prices to come down. I guess while they are able to sell plenty in Canada and the US at the price, there's little incentive to reduce price.

As to legality, i find assist level 1 sufficient (or 2 going uphill or against headwind) sufficient most of the time. I find it difficult to believe that any Court would seriously penalise a user just because it is capable of doing more (should they ever become aware of the technicalities).

I wonder how many years it will be before electric bikes appeal to the masses? I would have thought postmen and bobbys would much appreciate them.

Steve

The Royal Mail are intending to buy a large quantity of them Steve, I think around 16.000, and they are holding trials at the moment.

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Wow!

Wow! that'll boost the number of e-bikes in the UK! I assume they're getting the 250W version and guess they will get a good discount. Any idea of the size of BionX's output - that must represent a a year or more's supply i should think?

I wonder if that also implies that there will be a supplier/service agent in the Uk to deal with that lot - are you able to divulge the source of your knowledge?

Here's hoping it will improve the speed of the postal service

Steve

I can speak French ok so I would love to have some tips on these French suppliers-I couldn't find any, and then I can inform you of the price etc. it makes more sense for me with transport because there is no VAT processing charge through the borders and seeing as they do bulk shipments over the pond it should be more straightforwards.

any suppliers i might be able to contact?

dealer locator

If you go to the Bionx website

Vélo électrique, fabricant de vélos à assistance électrique, nos vélos électriques se démarquent des fabricants de vélos - BionX

then click on 'dealer locator' then on 'international' it lists the countries where you can click for further info.

I did try a couple but either got no reply or was told they were no longer BionX agents (sorry can't remember which ones).

let me know if u have better luck.

Steve

Use Google (France) and type Bionx in the search box. You should then find pages for Matra the French importers, and some retail outlets such as Vélos à assistance électrique par cyclable - vente de vélo et d'accessoires de ville et de voyage.

The price seems to be around 1200 euros, which is now £900 (the pound has declined against the euro). Nycewheels in the US charge 1100 dollars which is £550 (the dollar has declined against the pound) but will, like most US retailers, have to add hundreds of dollars for carriage. Add 25% (for duty, VAT, and brokerage) to that total to find the final price delivered to your UK door.

Edited January 25, 200818 yr by rooel

JV Bikes on the far side of Canada is another specialist Bionx dealer. They have a really fine looking Bionx complete bike here JV Bike -- Electric Bicycle: Norco VFR + BionX ...

at a sale price of under 1500 US dollars, but I think the UK landed price would be double that.

Edited January 25, 200818 yr by rooel

okay I have sent a couple of messages out, it would be a good idea to see what the Danish dealer is like because they're not too bothered about learning English like the French are:p even the Polish dealer might speak English and and they might take a smaller margin.

I will be interested in your findings, I have tried looking through the French sites myself but don't speak the lingo too well.

Martin

I am amazed there are no Bionx dealers in this country (the UK) too ... !! but if interest in electric bike continues, then its only a matter of time, hopefully.

I have the Bionx 250 (legal here) version; and I can vouch for it being a quality kit that has far exceeded my expectations. I have had it now for about 9 months, and use it daily, as it has enabled me to get rid of my car. Im a 47 years old lady cylist who isnt exactlty roaring fit as I am inclined to quickly become tired. I find I can pedal up most hills in top gear ... a thing I have not been able to do since I was in my 20's,.. though this does mean a good vigorous pedal on my behalf and with the contoller set to 200% (meaning the engine puts in twice the effort I do as I pedal along). But I whiz up the hills at a really neat pace, and dont arrive at the top exhausted and sweaty having taken 5 mins of slow wobbly and heavy exertion....!