Yes that's correct, no cyclepath or shared pavement use is allowed for over 250 watt machines, they are confined to roads.
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Bike to carry 8 -10 year old
- Thread starter Fizz
- Start date
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I do like these but they’re so much more expensive. Will certainly keep an eye out. Thanks
It is probably possible, swapping out the motor for an internally geared legal 250 watt one, but of course that's rather an expensive way to do things.
The motor it has is a direct drive one, forming part of the wheel in effect. The hub is the motor's stator and the wheel the rotor. That makes it a very slow revolving type of motor, which in turn means low torque (pulling power). Making it more powerful helps compensate for that. The advantage is simplicity, almost nothing to wear out. Ironically direct drive motors are best suited for higher speeds, but pedelecs aren't allowed higher speeds of course.
Most in-wheel e-bike motors are internally geared, the lower powered motor running faster and driving the wheel through reduction gearing. The combination of the motor running faster and the reduction gearing means adequate torque despite the lower nominal power.
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Thanks for your responses. Presumably a 250 watt motor wouldn’t be sufficient here or they would use one? (Sorry to be persisting with this but I’m really disappointed and the legislation seems so arbitrary, given the capped speed.)
the speed is capped but a 250w bosch cx motor can provide way more power than this thus why they will climb like a goat.
so if you are under 15.5mph you could be pulling 8-900w from the motor thus why the bike i linked to had space for 2 batts as you will need it for heavy loads and range they just cost alot.
so if you are under 15.5mph you could be pulling 8-900w from the motor thus why the bike i linked to had space for 2 batts as you will need it for heavy loads and range they just cost alot.
take a look at the Rio FS.
http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?rio-ls
that's more of an advantage - leaving more room for his legs.
It will be plenty as Soundwave has posted. The rating is a nominal one anyway, only meaning it will deliver 250 watts continuous under a specified test. Typically 250 rated motors deliver maximum powers around 400 to 600 watts, but more importantly when internally geared, they deliver it in ways more useful in the pedelec range of speeds.
So the average 250 watt geared motor will perform better than many nominally more powerful direct drives. Direct drive motors are cheap to make and simple, probably why they chose one, but it's not an efficient way of powering a legal speeds pedelec.
That's why the vast majority of all pedelecs use 250 watt motors, geared internally. They are best for the job of giving adequate pulling power at speeds up to the legal limit.
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After having had experience of setting up a couple of bikes to carry a girl up to age 4 I'd say your idea is a non starter for a normal shaped bicycle.
Either get another bike for him or buy a tandem are really the only options aside from specially modified bikes designed to carry a passenger, even then he'll soon grow to the point that that isn't even viable.
Either get another bike for him or buy a tandem are really the only options aside from specially modified bikes designed to carry a passenger, even then he'll soon grow to the point that that isn't even viable.
I agree, but a think a tag-along is also an option for 4 to 10 year olds, also giving the benefit of them able to take part in the cycling.
This link describes the various tag-along options with examples.
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I think the best solution would be one of these https://www.rad-innovations.com/hase-bikes-pino.html#
A bit expensive though!
Can’t imagine a 10 year old on a child seat working.
A bit expensive though!
Can’t imagine a 10 year old on a child seat working.
Thanks all for your responses.
One more request, particularly for flecc who seems well informed about the regulations. I’ve been referred to this document which seems to suggest that L1e-A bikes don’t need to be registered but must be ‘type approved’. Does this cast a different light on things? Many thanks in advance
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/603646/eapc-e-bike-qualification-guidance.pdf
One more request, particularly for flecc who seems well informed about the regulations. I’ve been referred to this document which seems to suggest that L1e-A bikes don’t need to be registered but must be ‘type approved’. Does this cast a different light on things? Many thanks in advance
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/603646/eapc-e-bike-qualification-guidance.pdf
would an 8 year old child be tall enough to block the view of the road?
I am thinking of potholes with the state of our roads in mind.
That's only a concession for having throttle control for 250 watt pedelecs in the UK, and it's not actually Type Approval or true L1e-A. The DfT is just using SVA (Single Vehicle Approval) to get round the regulations for this specific purpose, a UK specific tweak of the rules for 250 watts only.
It doesn't in any way help to get the 750 watt Radwagon on the road without it being registered as a full L1e-A motor vehicle with all that implies. If the Radwagon comes with a certificate of conformity which is quite likely for a machine with that power, it's already type approved as a motor vehicle.
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Thanks - i think the bit that seems ambiguous is in these two paragraphs:
1.2 Cycles where power can be obtained even when the rider is not pedalling (twist and go)
Under European law these cycles are categorised as “L1e-A” and are required to obtain EU or domestic type approval. They are not required to be registered. There is however an exemption for cycles where power is available only up to 6 km/h without pedalling, to help start-up, and these are exempt from type approval.
What about electric pedal cycles which are not EAPC under British Law as the power exceeds 250W, or the powered speed can exceed 15.5mph (25kph)?
These vehicles, regardless of the precise mode of power assistance, are classified as mopeds in Great Britain and like any moped, type approval has been a requirement since 2003. Depending on the maximum power and speed the vehicles will be categorised in Europe as L1e-A (not exceeding 1000kW or 25 km/h) or L1e-B (not L1e- A, and up to 4kW and 45km/h).
This is for the "walk alongside" throttles which e-bikes can have to help when someone finds a hill too steep and wants to walk up it with the bike powering itself. This law actually long preceded e-bikes, being the regulation for pedestrian controlled vehicles like the walker electric trolleys that the Royal Mail and others have used.
This is going over old ground again. They are L1e-A or L1e-B motor vehicles, the low powered moped and full moped classes, and in EU law and wider, that's what they are. How they are regulated though depends on each member country, and in the UK they have to be taxed, registered, number plated, insured and ridden helmeted with an appropriate driving licence only on roads.
All that applies to the 750 watt Radwagon.
Ignore what the DfT say about SVA pedelecs being L1e-A. They aren't since their "legal" tweak only applies to up to 250 watt and L1e-A is up to 1000 watts.
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Sorry, I know it’s tedious but it seems contradictory to me . It says L1e-as need type approval but don’t need to be registered. I thought that might mean that they don’t require licensing but maybe I’ve misunderstood what they mean by ‘registered’.
Thanks again and sorry!
That's the falsely named L1e-A class for having throttles on pedelecs. As I've posted it's a nonsense by the DfT to give a work around the "no throttles" law. As said it is NOT L1e-A, which is a 1000 watt class which does need type approval by the manufacturer, is a motor vehicle and has to be registered etc.
There is only one legal bureacracy free pedelec class, 250 watts maximum rating, power only when pedalling and maximum assist speed 15.5 mph. They are regarded as bicycles and can be ridden anywhere bicycles can.
To help those who want to have a throttle so they don't have to pedal all the time, the DfT have introduced this stupidly misnamed tweak for the UK alone which is confusing everyone. It doesn't apply to anything other than a normal 250 watt legal pedelec with a throttle added and doesn't help you in any way in respect of the 750 watt Radwagon.
I hasten to add that I'm not irritated by your queries, but by the DfT's continuing inability to explain anything they do in other than confusing ways. Their record of messing up the law in this area goes back to November 2003, when mistakes they made then led all the way to the present confusion.
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Have you seen the Eskuta? Basically, you just need to turn the pedals to get full power. They have a 48v system, so plenty of power compared with a normal ebike, and the battery is big too so you can get a reasonable range while using full power. They have passenger footrests so carrying a passenger is legal. These scooters have a lot of nice features, like remote control alarms, nice lights and things like that. The pedals are a bit weird compared with a bicycle, but you soon get used to them.
https://www.eskuta.com/products/eskuta-sx250-electric-bike
These bikes are good if you just want transport for one or two persons from A to B. They're not the sort of thing you ride for exercise.
https://www.eskuta.com/products/eskuta-sx250-electric-bike
These bikes are good if you just want transport for one or two persons from A to B. They're not the sort of thing you ride for exercise.
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