bike theft

[chr4]

What are your thoughts on sensible anti-theft protection currently (un)available with most ebikes? I can understand that it is a challenge for budget bikes as manufacturers often try to dip below £1000 to attract buyers using cycle to work schemes. But for European bikes which usually cost a lot more I think it would make sense to install some sort of GPS tracker and immobiliser like Sparta's as standard. Wouldn't it be great if ebikes were considered high risk targets for thieves? If I remember correctly one of the dealers here in UK had a number of bikes stolen from a lorry recently etc? I also read about a theft of 10 or 11 expensive ebikes from a shop in Poland not so long ago. Thieves knew what they came for, well planned - left in 3 minutes. Even though police arrived literally in a few minutes it was too late. If these bikes had GPS trackers police would have been able to catch them easily.
There is even a seperate thread on this forum designated for stolen bikes.
In my opinion these 'torque wars' between different manufacturers are a bit pointless - as I think most of these bikes are powerful enough. Areas which really need improvement would be security and maybe the noise. Even though gps at least could be installed by a customer it would also be easy to remove - whereas manufacturers could come up with something a bit more robust or well hidden.
I understand that Sparta which is probably the leader in security is bringing a crank drive to the market next year but my worry is that it being a Dutch bike it might have a battery on the rear rack which I would not want. I could be wrong though.

 

[Tomtomato]

I agree that manufacturers could do a lot more to prevent theft, including adding electronic immobilizers hidden in the motors or computers, that require an RFID tag to be nearby to work (same way many car keys work nowadays).

I believe the technology is available, and would probably cost only a few pounds in parts/components to implement.

GPS trackers (with built in mobile phones) would be more complicated, as they need a power source, and they would be bigger.They also need to be outside to work properly, while many bikes may be kept in sheds etc.

It's also very surprising that manufacturers like Kalkhoff don't include secure marking of their bikes, nor hidden RFID tags etc.

However, bike manufacturers may be better off selling more bikes: when people get their money back from insurance, they are likely to buy another bike anyway.

 

[Gringo]

However, bike manufacturers may be better off selling more bikes: when people get their money back from insurance, they are likely to buy another bike anyway

Hummm , yes I'd replace my bike if stolen anyway but how many owners have there bikes insured ?
Buying a bike is a big outlay and separate insurance can seam to expensive ( and sometimes not even thought about ) so I don't think bikes brought wit insurance money make any significant profits for manufactures.
On the other hand, I think the RFID tag is a brilliant idea and a strong selling point. Also dealers could offer theft insurance, maybe 12 months free with new bikes ?

 

[trex]

the RFID idea may not be as attractive as it sounds.
A key switch on your bike's battery does the same job whereas the GPS can lead to recovery.

 

[Tomtomato]

Well, I am making the assumption that anybody with a £1,500 or £2,000 electric bike would have it insured...

Insured or not: people would buy another one, which is surely benefiting the manufacturers, and none of them seems to be rushing to put some anti-theft systems in their expensive bikes

 

[Tomtomato]

A key switch on your bike's battery does the same job

I don't think a key switch on a battery (easily replaceable) would be the same as embedding an immobilizer in the bike's electronics.

 

[trex]

unless Bosch build the immobilizer into their kits, then the manufacturers will have to install the RFID switch as an add-on or add-in. It won't take a clued up thief long to remove the add-on or add-in. At most, he may need to have access to 'unlocking' software like they did with phones. The LCD acts already as an immobilizer. What would deter thieves would be a software activation service like Microsoft did with Windows back in 1998. The user will need to activate the LCD via the web. if the serial number of the LCD does not match the data stored in the battery or controller or both, the LCD needs to be activated again.

 

[Tomtomato]

Yes indeed, I was primarily thinking about integrated solutions, like Bosch-powered or Kalkhoff. Other types of bikes, where parts are readily available, are a lot more difficult to protect.

 

[chr4]

However, bike manufacturers may be better off selling more bikes: when people get their money back from insurance, they are likely to buy another bike anyway.[/QUOTE]

I don't think manufacturers gain anything by not improving security. If a bike gets stolen and and then sold whoever buys it is not going to buy a new one. What's more I like the fact that my current bike looks really old and dilapidated as it means it i very unlikely to get stolen. But I would prefer to have the same peace of mind by having more security features rathen then relying on ...rust. Besides, it is a matter of principle - I don't want to make life easy for thieves - whether I have insurance or not.

 

[Tomtomato]

I don't think manufacturers gain anything by not improving security.

then why they don't implement any measures then, nor even secure marking of the frame or some cheap built-in RFID tag??

Someone buying a stolen bike at a discounted price is not going to buy a brand new one anyway. However, whoever had his/her bike stolen is most likely going to buy the same.

 

[chr4]

Someone buying a stolen bike at a discounted price is not going to buy a brand new one anyway. However, whoever had his/her bike stolen is most likely going to buy the same.[/QUOTE]

I don't think it is as simple as that. If your bike gets stolen when you are miles away from home or even worse gets stolen when you are hundreds of miles away i.e. camping in France and spoils your holiday it becomes very personal. I think Sparta adding a crank drive to its offering will grab some market share from Bosch and Kalkhoff if they don't up their game.

 

[annsimpson]

not really a solution but we never leave the batteries on the bikes whether at home or on the back of the car, never leave the car unattended with the bikes on the back (go to the loo etc one at a time) we knew someone who had their bikes taken off their car when they were inside a café/garage having a drink. We also never leave the bikes, even locked, unless its for a few minutes outside our local shop if I use mine to my cleaning job it comes inside with me. My son who has costly road and mountain bikes will always remove the wheel and keep them inside his van if he's taken them somewhere, ours aren't particulary valuable but we don't want to loose them. Ours are kept in a locked garage at home and never left outside overnight.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I do not worry about my bike getting stolen but about getting on with my life. It is only a bike, even though I have poured my heart and soul into building the thing. Being my only means of transport and me being a member of the working poor, if it did get stolen the consequences would be rather more complicated for me than for many of you who have bikes which are objects of leisure.

I thought this through and bought a frame lock (no, not the one that is opened by a pocket knife nail file in all those Utube videos...) with its chain. My bike is insured and stored inside the stairwell of my apartment building where I am the only person living all year round.

When I am out and about:

- Front wheel attached by the chain which goes through street furniture before going back into lock.
- I leave the bike in a locked parking area at the station with battery and pannier bag with helmet still on - the chain goes through the pannier and the helmet too before being locked
- Elsewhere I take pannier bag(s) off and lock the bike
- If I was in some squalid neighbourhood I could also take the battery and the seat post out as well. This will not stop a thief with a battery powered angle grinder...

 

[chr4]

I don't want to be too paranoid about it - after all car theft did not stop people from buying cars. Having said that if the technology to prevent most thefts already exists why not use it? Car theft is at record low levels because according to this article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/11558743/Number-of-cars-stolen-in-the-UK-falls-to-48-year-low.html
the "industry has taken significant steps in recent years to clamp down on car thefts, with electronic systems and sophisticated software making it more difficult for crooks to crack into cars.

However, there has been an uptick in thefts of classic cars in recent years – particularly Minis, Ford Escorts and VW camper vans – as burgeoning interest in vintage vehicles drives up their value.

Older cars are also more vulnerable because they are not equipped with the modern security features included in newer models."

 

[oldtom]

Older cars are also more vulnerable because they are not equipped with the modern security features included in newer models."

All these older vehicles can be discreetly equipped with state-of-the-art alarm/immobilisers fairly inexpensively.

Probably few people would be prepared to spend £300-500 on a vehicle worth maybe £1500 or even £3000 but for the more valuable classic cars, it might be a good investment.

Although many owners shy away from any divergence from the original for fear of losing value, they install other forms of electronic and physical barriers to protect their investment, leaving the car untouched.

At the upper end of this market, we are not talking about guys with a lock-up garage and an old Ford Prefect who enjoy tinkering with and displaying their pride and joy through the summer season. There are serious players in the investment market who buy up £1m cars for their portfolio which may also include islands, forests, art works, stamps, gold bullion, etc.

Just recently, I had occasion to replace an 11 year-old Thatcham Cat 1 alarm/immobiliser and it was less than £300 all in. For me, that was money well spent as the vehicle has a current value in excess of 20K and is something of a thief magnet.

Tom

 

[Elis.m]

Hi,
do you know the tracker WIMB? I read something about it and it is quite interesting. So, I try to find someone, who know more about it or have it in bike. It should protect bikes from stealing or something like this…

 

[JuicyBike]

Trackers are available for electric bikes and we've been looking at providing an option to include one at purchase.
Companies providing a small device that can be fitted charge a fair whack - between £150 to £250+ per bike. For us, at our price point, to provide a modular unit that can be chosen at purchase along with the sim card and contract required, is difficult to achieve within that cost range.
I'm not convinced private riders would take up that option but fleet owners have asked us for that facility, so we're working on it. This thread's interesting though, to hear what others think.

One company that may be of interest is Riders Mate.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Any insurance company worth working with would subsidize a fair whack of that amount, at the least with large reduction of premium and why not lifting of franchises.

 

[footpump]

watched a tv program a while back, a tracker was fitted inside a saddle non ebike and chained to railings, the local towrags just grabbed the bike and wrenched it from railings.

some hours/days/weeks later tracked it to row of houses knocked on each but resieved no info on said bike.
so would it work in practise.

 

[halfer]

These days I lock my bike up using two D-locks, each costing £30 or so - I have an Abus and a Kryptonite. Providing street furniture allows it, once through the front wheel (which is quick-release) and once through the frame.

Two locks does add a fair bit to my carry weight - they go in my rucksack - but it's worth it for the extra peace of mind.

The saddle/rear mudguard is quick release, but I've left the bike in all sorts of places, and no-one has nicked that (yet). Ditto the rear wheel, but anyone wanting to steal that would have to fight with the chain - not likely to be worth their while.