Bike Purchase Advice - 22 Mile (one way) Commute

[zakventis]

i! I have a Trek Powerfly 7 (2017) 500W/Bosch Performance CX mid-motor, bought last April. In the past 9 months I have done 3,145 fault-free, mixed terrain miles (at an overall average speed of 15.2 mph) and it is still running perfectly (although chain replaced every 1,500 miles and brake pads replaced at 2,500).
The range is about 35 miles because this is mid-Wales and the terrain is less than flat! On the occasional, flattish route I have achieved 44 miles. Be warned tho' - the Bosch motors have a crank to pedal rotation step-up ratio of 2.5:1 which means your bike, with an all-up weight (including rider) of 100kg, becomes 250kg when the battery is exhausted!
I toyed with the idea of a dongle as I do find 16 mph a bit limited, but as the bike cost £2.5k I will wait until the Bosch 2 year guarantee period is over!

 

[RobF]

There are now millions of Bosch motors on ebikes around the world - far, far more than any other motor.

The failure rate needs to be taken in that context.

It's still hard to assess, but I suspect it's lower than any other motor.

A money no object bike for the OP would be a Riese and Muller dual battery High Speed Rohloff Charger.

The dual battery system equalises the use and charge of both batteries - ideal battery management with no faff for the rider.

On board charging - if the OP can arrange that - is a good idea because taking any battery on and off a lot of times inevitably wears the contacts and locking mechanisms.

But the main plus of the Charger is the Rohloff gear hub, ideal for commuting.

Lots of commuters on here report having to regularly change chains and cassettes.

A Rohloff is famously bomb proof, and the chain will last thousands and thousands of miles due to its high line and the fact it always runs in perfect alignment and is not scraped across a cassette.

My Charger has a Chainglider cover, which will increase chain life even further, or the OP could fully grasp the technology and get one with a belt.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Thanks Whoosh. I'm definitely weighing this up as it seems like a great option but I am a bit daunted by the fitting process though. I'll have a look at some YouTube videos to see if I can get my head round it. The exact model of my Norco Indie is this one https://www.evanscycles.com/norco-indie-2-2015-hybrid-bike-EV211749 I already have a pannier rack and mudguards fitted to it and I'd prefer to have the battery on the rack than on the frame I think, so I suppose I'd need to get a special rack like you have on the models on your site. Do you sell these separately as well? Thanks for all your advice so far!

Putting a battery on the rack will mess up your handling, the weight is too high, especially 17 Ah ones. If you don't want it on the frame a solution is to slip the battery into the pannier it gets the CG down lower to about axle level:



The next step for the bike above is a custom battery box in the frame and the same hub motor that Woosh sells but in the freewheel version.

 

[Woosh]

The next step for the bike above is a custom battery box in the frame and the same hub motor that Woosh sells but in the freewheel version.

the freewheel version is XF07. We have stock of XF07 in both 26" and 700C.
Price is £15 less compared to XF08C.
Most hub kits are sold on one to one consultation. Customers are invited to email pictures to support so we can make up the right kit for their bike.

 

[Woosh]

It's still hard to assess, but I suspect it's lower than any other motor.

I believe best motor for commuting in terms of reliability and reducing overall maintenance cost is the front geared hub used in combination with a rear IGH, battery behind seat post. However, most commuters prefer the middle and rear geared hubs, battery on seat post for better ride quality.

 

[mooksy_86]

There are now millions of Bosch motors on ebikes around the world - far, far more than any other motor.

The failure rate needs to be taken in that context.

It's still hard to assess, but I suspect it's lower than any other motor.

A money no object bike for the OP would be a Riese and Muller dual battery High Speed Rohloff Charger.

The dual battery system equalises the use and charge of both batteries - ideal battery management with no faff for the rider.

On board charging - if the OP can arrange that - is a good idea because taking any battery on and off a lot of times inevitably wears the contacts and locking mechanisms.

But the main plus of the Charger is the Rohloff gear hub, ideal for commuting.

Lots of commuters on here report having to regularly change chains and cassettes.

A Rohloff is famously bomb proof, and the chain will last thousands and thousands of miles due to its high line and the fact it always runs in perfect alignment and is not scraped across a cassette.

My Charger has a Chainglider cover, which will increase chain life even further, or the OP could fully grasp the technology and get one with a belt.

That machine look incredible but £5k is way over my budget. The Mrs would literally smother me in my sleep!

 

[RobF]

That machine look incredible but £5k is way over my budget. The Mrs would literally smother me in my sleep!

Seems a shame not to spend all your money, so how about a Rohloff gear bike with a front wheel conversion?

The conversion is the easy bit.

Not so many Rohloff bikes around, but Thorn would be my choice.

Top quality, steel bikes, and a proper bespoke testing and fitting service if you can make it to their premises in Somerset.

The bike would cost over £2K, but worth it if you are serious about daily commuting in the long term.

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/new-used-cycles-frames/

 

[mooksy_86]

OK so all things considered I've decided that I'm going to buy an Oxygen S-Cross MTB with an extra battery and dock and charge it at either end of the commute.

There are a number of reasons I've come to this conclusion. Firstly by my calculations I should still be able to cover one leg of the journey on a full charge quite easily even after accounting for ~40% reduction in capacity over time. The second battery I'll keep on hand as a backup or replacement, as based on reviews, I'm expecting that to become a problem long before any issues with the motor.

Secondly the Oxygen isn't too expensive for a first ebike. As someone wisely pointed out, it would probably be prudent to not spend a fortune on a first bike as I'll no doubt upgrade in a few of years time.

I had a good think about buying a conversion kit (thanks for all your advice on that Woosh) but having looked at what's involved I've decided it's a little too far outside my comfort zone to install one. There's also the fact that the rigid hybrid style of my Norco Indie isn't as well suited to the gravel and mud that makes up a large percentage of my route. Whereas the cross-country suspension fork and nobbly tyres on the Oxygen are a much better fit for this. The frame integrated battery is also a lot more subtle.

Many of the bikes mentioned with the Bosch drives do look good and I'm more convinced of their reliability now. But with much of my route being along long, flat sections I think a hub motor is the better choice. Also a major boon for me, is that the Oxygen can be tuned up a bit and allow me to get the 20mph speed I'm after. Without forking out for any additional dongles or borking the readings on the display unit.

So it's going to be the Oxygen with a nice set of mudguards and a pannier rack. I'll keep this thread updated to let you all know how I get on Thanks so much for everyone's kind advice.

 

[Trevormonty]

Shimano Alfine 8spd hub is lot cheaper than Rohloff. The 300% gear range is enough your commute. Can't be used with Bosch performance or CX drives, but will work with Activeline Plus or Shimano STEPs E6000 drives.

 

[Trevormonty]

Good choice, the bike should pay for it's self very quickly if you ride most days.

Even if you upgrade in future to another ebike having Oxygen as spare would be useful. With mileage your doing any bike will endup with some down time for maintenance.

 

[Woosh]

I had a good think about buying a conversion kit (thanks for all your advice on that Woosh) but having looked at what's involved I've decided it's a little too far outside my comfort zone to install one. There's also the fact that the rigid hybrid style of my Norco Indie isn't as well suited to the gravel and mud that makes up a large percentage of my route. Whereas the cross-country suspension fork and nobbly tyres on the Oxygen are a much better fit for this. The frame integrated battery is also a lot more subtle.

Take also a look at the Woosh Rio MTB. It has hydraulic brakes front and rear, better crankset (GXP), suspension fork (magnesium lowers) and 17AH battery. We can also deliver it with a rack fitted.
http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?rio-mtb

 

[mooksy_86]

Seems a shame not to spend all your money, so how about a Rohloff gear bike with a front wheel conversion?

The conversion is the easy bit.

Not so many Rohloff bikes around, but Thorn would be my choice.

Top quality, steel bikes, and a proper bespoke testing and fitting service if you can make it to their premises in Somerset.

The bike would cost over £2K, but worth it if you are serious about daily commuting in the long term.

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/new-used-cycles-frames/

The Thorn's are bomb proof! I looked into touring bikes quite seriously after reading Alistair Humphries world cycle tour books a few years ago (brilliant if you haven't read them!). As I understand it they're better suited to going very far but not particularly fast though?

 

[RobF]

The Thorn's are bomb proof! I looked into touring bikes quite seriously after reading Alistair Humphries world cycle tour books a few years ago (brilliant if you haven't read them!). As I understand it they're better suited to going very far but not particularly fast though?

Not 'built for speed' as such, but much of that would depend on the rider and in this case the motor.

Steel plus Rohloff plus heavy duty wheels and other components does equal a bit more weight.

If you think about it, commuting and touring requirements are similar - the bike needs to be comfortable and, above all, reliable.

The Oxygen you are going for should do the job, you've probably seen the review thread on here from Andy Bluenose.

He gives his bike a good daily thrashing, and it's stood up to it fairly well.

Forty plus miles every day is hard use on any bicycle, so you should be prepared to spend some time and money on maintenance.

A hub gear, even if you couldn't afford a Rohloff, would have been better.

Derailers are fine for 50 miles on the Sunday morning club run when you have all week to do any tinkering necessary to prep the bike for the next ride.

Not quite so handy when the bike has to go again the next morning.

I would be tempted to buy a chain, cassette, and brake pads in the next month or two so you have them to hand when needed.

 

[soundwave]

if you got the cash id spend it on a mid drive bike just because you will take a massive hit on a hub motor bike if you want to sell it on and upgrade.

i can get about 30 miles on a 500w batt with a dongle but new batts are a rip off but can now be recelled for about 350 quid.

loads of vids on my you tube page

 

[mooksy_86]

If you think about it, commuting and touring requirements are similar - the bike needs to be comfortable and, above all, reliable.

A hub gear, even if you couldn't afford a Rohloff, would have been better.

Derailers are fine for 50 miles on the Sunday morning club run when you have all week to do any tinkering necessary to prep the bike for the next ride.

Not quite so handy when the bike has to go again the next morning.

Good point, with all of the considerations about which motor to go for, battery range etc I'd forgotten about the drive train getting full of grime on a daily basis. The Kalkhoff Excite I originally picked out had an Alfine hub and carbon belt for that reason but after all of the posts on here about the "Kalkhoff clack" and them having notoriously problematic motors I cancelled my order.

I haven't called Oxygen to order the bike yet as I need to wait a few days for EBCo to refund the money, so I've got a bit more time to think on it before I commit to anything. Just out of interest what kind of speed to you get out of your New Charger Touring? The old model with the NuVinci hub and 500wh battery is just under my maximum price range http://www.onbike.co.uk/crossbar-electric-bikes/charger-nuvinci.html

 

[soundwave]

 

[RobF]

Speed is up to you.

Most Bosch bikes, including the Charger, can be derestricted.

Alternatively, it looks as if 50 Cycles will sell you a factory Speed Pedelec, which would cut the motor at 28mph.

Worth bearing in mind either bike is not 'tuned' in any way, it just carries on assisting above 15mph.

Makes a difference, but quite a bit of pedal effort is still needed to maintain high speed on anything but flat/tailwind conditions.

I've only briefly tried an Oxygen.

There's not much in it power wise, but I reckon it's a bit easier to go faster on the Oxygen.

All things come at a cost, so at 20+mph the rider will be slurping the battery big style.

Your round trip at speed is pushing it on a 500wh battery, so you would either need to charge both ends or have two batteries - hence my suggestion of a dual battery bike.

Charging at both ends is extra faff, only you can decide if you can live with that.

I'm guessing a second or dual battery would push the Charger NuVinci above your budget.

Have you looked at Cube?

Among their gazillion models I'm sure there's a couple with hub gears.

 

[mooksy_86]

Wow soundwave I think you're a little bit insane! I don't think I'll be going any where near those kind of speeds. What motor do you have on each of those bikes?

 

[soundwave]

mine is bosch performance 2014 but i have a dongle so you got no chance if im behind you.
for speed it is about the gearing and how fast you can keep spinning, flat out you need 120rpm.

tho you crash it is going to hurt so full face helmet.

 

[Artstu]

Just out of curiosity how far is the shortest road distance for your trip to work?