Bike for child trailer, to go up steep hill?

[Meita]

Hello everyone,
After having lurked for a little while I'm now hoping that you might be able to help me figure out which e-bike I should buy!
I know exactly what I need it for, but the more I look at what is available, the more confused I get about what would suit my requirements.

So, in two weeks my little boy will be starting nursery school and I will be doing the 'school run', by bicycle (and trailer). The trailer is a Chariot Cougar (single), weighs about 11kg, plus child & luggage = about 30kg. It is attached by an axle hitch, so whichever e-bike I buy, I need to be able to replace the rear axle with the one provided by Chariot.

I am reasonably fit, 5'4'', around 65kg and I am happy to pedal along and put a little effort in. NOT looking for something to pull us along/up with no effort from me at all. But I need to do the school run whatever the weather and also if I am down with a cold or something.

The journey is 3.9km (2.4 miles) one way, I'll be doing two roundtrips/day (drop off and pick up) = 15.6km/day (9.7miles/day)

We start at 19m above sea level and end at 66m, total elevation (one way) +70m, -22.4m. Average incline is 'only' 2.6% but there are a few very steep bits, the steepist being at 10.7%.

My priorities are safety (reliable, good brakes; smooth speed changes; no sudden power boosts or unexpected speed changes), and reliability (whilst I am able to fix a puncture that is about the extent of my tech abilities). Preferably no resistance from motor when not in use. I think I would like pedal assist as well as a throttle.

Not so fussed about range, weight, fancy looks and accessories. It just needs to help me get up that hill.

Nice to haves are: Not extra long (bike + trailer is long as is), quiet motor, weather proof (mudguards pre-installed etc., else I can fit them myself).

Budgetwise I am thinking around £700. However I am prepared to be convinced I need to increase that, if what I need is not available at that price.

I started off looking at Stealth by Cyclotricity because there is a dealer nearby. But having surfed around a bit, I am confused:

- Given the hill and the trailer, do I need a crank drive? How do I know if a particular hub motor is strong enough?
- Is there a likelihood of being imbalanced if I have a front wheel motor dragging along all that length and weight?
- Should I avoid weighing up the rear(i.e. trailer) with luggage and hence do I need space for panniers on the bike itself?
- With rear hub motors, is it be possible to replace the rear axle?

Any help and suggestions would be much appreciated!

 

[Meita]

I confess I am slightly underwhelmed by the number of responses... I had thought that some dealer-posters at the least would recommend their bikes.

Is it the budget? Ok I'm thinking that probably needs to go up. Or are my requirements totally unrealistic? Or does nobody have experience with towing a child trailer up a steep hill?

Please help me someone - I've been trying to read up and do my research but the more I read, the more confused I get.

 

[JuicyBike]

Hi Meita
(Busy day today).
We have happy riders towing their kids to school in hilly Derbyshire especially.

Can you post a picture of that Chariot Cougar axle connection to help us understand the issue?
Any rear hub drive bike will have a fixed rear axle unless we can spot an alternative fix.

Our bikes best tow a trailer that attaches to one side of the existing axle.

 

[trex]

I think that retailers are scared of being held responsible for any recommendation they may make when children are involved.
If you ask for a bike that can pull 30kgs trailer uphill, lots of bikes can do that. I'd say the Tonaro Compy should do it.
Then get your local bikeshop to hitch the trailer to your bike.

Good luck with your search.

 

[Meita]

Thanks,
Well it's a Chariot ez-hitch
Chariot Carriers Axle Mount EZ Hitch at REI.com
(that's just a random site that popped up but shows a good image).

So the hitch is attached to the axle. So on my current push-bike for example, I had to remove to original axle and replace it with this one from Chariot instead.

It works really well (fast to attach/detach etc.) but do I understand correctly that this now means I cannot use it with a rear hub motor?
Definitely NOT replacing the trailer - it was way too expensive for that, needs to last another couple of years. So need to find an e-bike that suits the trailer.

 

[flecc]

The lack of responses may be due to the requirements, a bottom end price, powerful or crank motor and quiet running being big limitations on choice.

Rear hub motors cannot have the spindle changed, but a front hub motor or crank drive bike can overcome that difficulty. Alternatively it is possible to change the trailer hitch for a specialist one one, though, attaching in a different way, but those can add to the cost and even be pricey.

No problem with using loaded panniers as well as a trailer, I often do and the extra weight on the bike rear wheel helps to stabilise the rear of the bike with the trailer weight attached.

The new Woosh Sirocco CD at £799 is crank drive so that could cope with your hill climbing by use of the motor driving the lower gears.

If a hub motor you need enough power for hill climbing, and the eZee motor is one of few more powerful ones in lower cost e-bikes. Their eZee Sprint Primo model has that motor in the front wheel and is priced from £650, depending on the battery. In your case the standard 8 Ah battery is enough so £650 would be the price. It has a hub gear with only three speeds though which can limit the pedalling help you give in climbing. Also from CycleZee, the two Tonaro models at the foot of this webpage and priced at £925 would be well up to the job. They are crank drive and have enough gears for your purpose.

As for noise, hub motors are fairly quiet at around full speed but can get a little noisier when pulling hard at low speeds, but that is not at an objectionable level to most users.

P.S. It looks as though that trailer hitch could be used without the skewer on either of the above bikes, one with derailleur and the other with the hub gear. For other e-bikes, some rear hub motors have a slightly larger diameter rear axle, so the hitch may need to be drilled or filed out 2mm for one of those.
.

 

[trex]

I had a quick look at the EZ hitch, it looks quite straightforward.
You only need to buy a new cup for the new bike, no need for skewer.

 

[Meita]

Thanks flecc, was looking at the Sirocco CD but unfortunately it's currently unavailable But will look into the eZee too.

Trex, interesting, but on my current bike the cup and skewer are one integrated item. If I got a new cup only, how would I attach it to the bike? I don't think Chariot even provide it separately; am off to check right now.

 

[trex]

picture of the cup
You can buy with the skewer but you don't need the skewer. Your local bikeshop will undo the axle nut and install the cup for you. 15 minute job.

 

[flecc]

Thanks flecc, was looking at the Sirocco CD but unfortunately it's currently unavailable But will look into the eZee too.

I'd also edited my above post in the eZee entry to include two Tonaro models that would suit, you may not have seen that.

As Trex says, there's no problem with using that attachment on the above e-bikes, and I'd also added a note to that effect in my post.

 

[Meita]

Thanks again.
In a way it would have made things easier to be able to exclude all rear hub motor bikes due to trailer issues .. but well they are back in the race now
So if hub motor, it would need to be a 'strong' one, and the eZee primo lists as 'BLDC front hub' motor.
edit: just found out: stands for brushless direct current.
No idea what that means though. Juicybikes have 'brushless DC' which I assume is the same? Cyclotricity just says 'brushless front hub', whereas the Woosh Sundowner for instance (an alternative to the non-available Sirocco CD perhaps) has a 'Bafang SWXK'. How do I know how strong these motors are relative to each other? If I compare the hub motors on juicybikes, cyclotricity, woosh, eZee, maybe Kudos - which ones are strong enough for my hill-trailer-adventures?

I was chatting to someone from 50cycles yesterday (they do Kalkhoff). Well those bikes look nice but are probably more than I need (I don't need all that range for instance) and out of budget range. But the guy I chatted to was saying that a) the impulse models would be ideal for my hill-climbing, and b) with cheaper bikes I was likely to be putting a lot of strain on them with the hills, leading to reduced battery life etc. and in the long run it might be cheaper to go for something designed for hills. Any thoughts on that? If I get a hub motor, will I be replacing the battery in a year or so?

 

[flecc]

Don't worry about those variable terms, those are all brushless motors of the type most preferred. As for the power, it's only possible to tell with more details of the controller or by asking here. The hub motors you quote are all medium power. The eZee motor, (not on all models) and the Bafang BPM motor are the more powerful hub motors most likely to be found in your price ranges, but I think the cheapest bike with the BPM is likely to be far dearer than that eZee model, maybe around double, though with more gears.

50cycles would say that, wouldn't they! The Kalkhoff bikes are good, but the better lower cost e-bikes are perfectly capable of lasting ok, and their replacement batteries are usually much less expensive. The Impulse system they recommend is a crank drive so similar in effectiveness for climbing to other crank drives like the Woosh or Tonaro models. If you don't mind the styling of the Tonaros, they would also do your job well.
.

 

[Meita]

Ok so was looking at the Tonaro models, I don't mind the styling though it does take some getting used to.
I'd say definitely a contender but have been unable to figure out if they have pedal-assist. All I could find is 'The power is controlled by using the twist throttle.' If no PAS that would seriously put me off.

 

[flecc]

Ok so was looking at the Tonaro models, I don't mind the styling though it does take some getting used to.
I'd say definitely a contender but have been unable to figure out if they have pedal-assist. All I could find is 'The power is controlled by using the twist throttle.' If no PAS that would seriously put me off.

They have both, in fact the throttle is an option on those and an extra from some suppliers. I can't speak of the quality of the PAS operation though, I get the impression from posts that most Tonaro owners seem to prefer using the throttle mode. Maybe a Tonaro owner will post more on this for you.

 

[Meita]

Thanks so much, I am seeing things a lot clearer now. Now off to pick up the little man - as yet not from the top of the hill, just down the road..

 

[Cyclezee]

I'd also edited my above post in the eZee entry to include two Tonaro models that would suit, you may not have seen that.

As Trex says, there's no problem with using that attachment on the above e-bikes, and I'd also added a note to that effect in my post.

Thanks Tony, your cheque is in the post

 

[Cyclezee]

I confess I am slightly underwhelmed by the number of responses... I had thought that some dealer-posters at the least would recommend their bikes.

Is it the budget? Ok I'm thinking that probably needs to go up. Or are my requirements totally unrealistic? Or does nobody have experience with towing a child trailer up a steep hill?

Please help me someone - I've been trying to read up and do my research but the more I read, the more confused I get.

Sorry Meita,

I don't get a lot of time to read the forum.

If you can make it to Redbridge on Sunday, check us out.
More info on that here http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/14341-information-london-redbridge-test-e-bike-day-sunday-7-april-1300-170-a.html

If you can't make it, email me for any information that you require

Regards,

 

[trex]

Meita, as you are 5ft4, you may be better off with a step through bike as these tend to have lower saddle height. ST are also better for keeping your balance at traffic lights.

 

[Meita]

Ok will be heading to Redbridge shortly... Looking forward to testing out some bikes!

 

[Steve Hall]

I think that retailers are scared of being held responsible for any recommendation they may make when children are involved.
If you ask for a bike that can pull 30kgs trailer uphill, lots of bikes can do that. I'd say the Tonaro Compy should do it.
Then get your local bikeshop to hitch the trailer to your bike.

Good luck with your search.

They are right to be scared. These electric bikes bomb along. If a car should hit your flimsey child carrier with you taveling at 15mph and a car at 40mph your child will end up squashed into your twisted back wheel. If the child should survive, then you will or may be left looking after a disabled child for the rest of your life. I personally would leave well alone and get the bus.