Bike build - xiongda 2 speed

[handbaked]

I wanted to do a post for my electric conversion/build so here goes. ..

Xiongda 2 speed 48v rear disc motor
Bigstone C600 LCD
Lishui controller
Pedal sensor
11.6ah lithium-ion samsung pack (eclipse bikes)

Here is the motor and controller:

And here it is once built onto a new rim with 8 speed DNP freewheel:

I picked up a donor bike from gumtree. A retro dmr jump bike. Yes i got nostalgic and yes i could have built it onto a bigger frame but then where is the fun in that? i wanted a small frame that would be fun to ride on the roads and in the green spaces of London.

I stripped the bike right down including the bottom bracket. I thoroughly rebuilt everything down to each bearing which has not only ensured it is as efficient as posisble but also masively increased my understanding of this particular bike build.

I had to widen the rear triangle using a car jack. I was worried about this step but to be honest it was the least troublesome and in fact very easy.

I also made some simple mounts for the LCD out of zinc brackets from the pound shop. This gave me more room on the handlebars and provided central positioning on my oversized bars.

I had to modify the pedal sensor as i have an oversized BB. I widened the hole in the plastic for the BB and reversed the plastic disc so that the sensors bracket could be bent to fit around the frame. Works perfectly.

I housed the controller in the triangle of the frame. Initially it was under the seat (hence the seat bag) but due to the tiny frame on my bike the biggest hurdle was the positioning of the battery as it didn't fit in the triangle. I have a small triangle bag on its way to make a better housing for the controller.

Due to the battery not fitting the frame i ended up trying various ideas. The battery when already on its bracket fits perfectly in the triangle but leaves no room for manoeuvre so not only can it not be removed from the bracket but the bracket can't even be screwed into place. Trust me i tried, even fitting rivnuts to the diagonal tube (no bottle mounts) but it simply was not possible. I tried to work out a way of permanently mounting the battery so it was not removable but struggled to safely secure the battery in position. I really wanted to have the battery weight central and low but could not work out a solution for this frame so I ended up buying this cheap rear pannier:

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=251557054614&alt=web

It was easy to take the horizontal platform off this model so then I essentially had a light weight tube with seat post clamp attached. I then just drilled straight through the alloy tube in 3 places and used nuts and bolts to hold the battery bracket in place. It does mean all the weight is on the back wheel but it seems to ride fine, so for this frame this will have to do!

I have just done around 18 miles on it on my first ride and i must say it's great fun so far! Cruises on the flat at 34kmph with some pedaling on PAS 5 and storms up petty steep long hills on my commute at around 20kmph again with light pedaling. I bought the xiongda due to the 2 speeds for these particular hill climbs however i have not fitted a throttle and don't intend to ride it without putting some pedal power in and have not had to use the low gear. Unless i literally just use a throttle i can't see I'm going to use it very much. However it is very good at climbing steep gradients and the motor is so quiet. When on a stand being tested in my back garden you hear a slight whine but on the road (even a quiet road) i would go as far as saying it is silent. This particular build rides like a powered bmx in many ways. It makes the journey by bike even more fun than before!

I intend to put a twist throttle on at some point just for those off road moments where i want electric powered fun. Also i intend to mount a rear mudguard to the underside of the pannier. I will also look at getting a tight fitting waterproof cover for the battery as well as something similar for the controller. I am an all weather cyclist so will be looking at ways to make sure it doesn't die in a heavy down pour which may also include re-wiring to include waterproof plugs and sockets.

Thanks to everyone on the forum that helped me with this build with special thanks to d8veh!

So far so good!

 

[awol]

Nice, I am always on the lookout on Gumtree for a bargain bike. I like your LCD mount idea too, I may do that too. To waterproof cover my rear pannier bag housing my controller and battery I use something like this:-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Waterproof-Travel-Camping-Hiking-Backpack-Trolley-Luggage-Bag-Dust-Rain-Cover-/201106314295?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item2ed2ded437

They are a bit big but I fold it up to shrink it and ducktape the folds inside and out to hold it down to size.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

If you're going to ride in all weathers, you need to do something about the motor wire. Horizontal drop-outs are not good for hub-motors. It looks like you've run the wire forwards and upwards. Instead, you should run it backwards, then downwards before looping round and going back up to stop the motor from filling up with water.

I built one bike with horizontal drop-outs and found it very difficult to get the wheel in after repairing a puncture. I had to end-up the bike standing on its front wheel and handlebars like a tripod with the drop-outs vertical, then gravity would help the wheel in. It might be worth getting puncture resistant tyres because it's a pain to do that on the road.

 

[handbaked]

Nice, I am always on the lookout on Gumtree for a bargain bike. I like your LCD mount idea too, I may do that too. To waterproof cover my rear pannier bag housing my controller and battery I use something like this:-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Waterproof-Travel-Camping-Hiking-Backpack-Trolley-Luggage-Bag-Dust-Rain-Cover-/201106314295?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item2ed2ded437

They are a bit big but I fold it up to shrink it and ducktape the folds inside and out to hold it down to size.

I was thinking something like this. Though maybe making a cover to fit out of an old rain jacket or something.

 

[handbaked]

If you're going to ride in all weathers, you need to do something about the motor wire. Horizontal drop-outs are not good for hub-motors. It looks like you've run the wire forwards and upwards. Instead, you should run it backwards, then downwards before looping round and going back up to stop the motor from filling up with water.

I built one bike with horizontal drop-outs and found it very difficult to get the wheel in after repairing a puncture. I had to end-up the bike standing on its front wheel and handlebars like a tripod with the drop-outs vertical, then gravity would help the wheel in. It might be worth getting puncture resistant tyres because it's a pain to do that on the road.

Thanks for the tip on the wire. I will change that for sure. I intend to get one of those inner tubes which are not circular but like a snake so i needn't worry about the faff of taking off the rear wheel.

I am looking at buying some waterproof cable connectors for all connections to the controller. What current rating would the battery and motor connections need to be?

I have been looking at a couple of different types.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=151732002269&alt=web

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=140972825423&alt=web

What is the best way to keep the controller waterproof but also cool? It will be in a triangle bag in the frame. Will that be enough?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You don't need waterproof connectors if you keep the controller in a triangle bag. Heat isn't a problem either. The things where water will be a problem is:
1. the battery. Water can get in through the seam. You can either cover it or silicone the two halves together.
2. the throttle. In heavy rain water can get in and short it. You can open it up and seal the sensor wires with silicone. The rest i waterroof.
3. the motor wire. As well as correct cable routing, a bit of that sticky butyl bath or caravan sealant will seal the axle.

 

[handbaked]

You don't need waterproof connectors if you keep the controller in a triangle bag. Heat isn't a problem either. The things where water will be a problem is:
1. the battery. Water can get in through the seam. You can either cover it or silicone the two halves together.
2. the throttle. In heavy rain water can get in and short it. You can open it up and seal the sensor wires with silicone. The rest i waterroof.
3. the motor wire. As well as correct cable routing, a bit of that sticky butyl bath or caravan sealant will seal the axle.

You mean this type stuff for the motor sealant?

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=131565883437&alt=web

Seems kinds of overkill to buy such a big tube that is likely to go of before using anymore though....

Im just thinking of changing the 5 motor connections now as the bullet connectors are rubbish in my eyes.

I need to change the bolts for the battery to pannier connection too as they are too long and really the nuts should be on top not underneath. This will allow me more room between wheel and bolts and also be a neater finish so i can make a custom sized cover for when it rains.

Just smashed it back from work on PAS 5 the whole way. Such good transport for London!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

This is the stuff. It's like putty. You just squish a big gob arround the wire exit. It's self-healing and bonds to everything it comes into contact with. It takes some time to bond (an hour?) So don't panic if it doesn't seem to be doing much. Make a small ball and leave it on something that's scrap to see what happens after a day.

All your connectors will do the job. I never change yhem on my ikes, and I've not had any problems with them, except some of the cheap plastic overings on the bullets have melted at 30 amps. Most have silicone rubber overings these days. Just make sure that the bullets are tight and you hould be OK.

 

[handbaked]

This is the stuff. It's like putty. You just squish a big gob arround the wire exit. It's self-healing and bonds to everything it comes into contact with. It takes some time to bond (an hour?) So don't panic if it doesn't seem to be doing much. Make a small ball and leave it on something that's scrap to see what happens after a day.

All your connectors will do the job. I never change yhem on my ikes, and I've not had any problems with them, except some of the cheap plastic overings on the bullets have melted at 30 amps. Most have silicone rubber overings these days. Just make sure that the bullets are tight and you hould be OK.

I bought a slightly smaller tube of butyl based sealant. Just waiting for it to arrive. I have also made the cable go down and round so water droplets shouldn't make their way into the axle.

Also now added a triangle bah and left hand thumb throttle!

 

[twinkle]

Nice upgrade


I have just fitted a Xiongda 36v system to my trike

report to follow in another thread

regards emma

 

[JamesW]

Like the upgrade - Possible point of concern that I've seen d8 raise in many threads in the past:
You've used an aluminium alloy rack not a steel one - when it goes due to metal fatigue (and it will probably go as aluminium is less forgiving than steel when stressed) you will lose your battery. Suggest you replace the rack with a steel one!

Love that you used everything in this upgrade - even the kitchen sink!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Good point, well presented. The weld will break sooner or later. To avoid that, I would add a couple a couple of struts. You can buy strong 15mm aluminium tube in Wickets. Bash it flat at one end enough to wrap the flat bit around your seat stay and put a bolt through to clamp it. Bash the other end flat and bend it at a right angle to bolt it to the rack or something like that.

 

[Alan Quay]

Like the upgrade - Possible point of concern that I've seen d8 raise in many threads in the past:
You've used an aluminium alloy rack not a steel one - when it goes due to metal fatigue (and it will probably go as aluminium is less forgiving than steel when stressed) you will lose your battery. Suggest you replace the rack with a steel one!

Love that you used everything in this upgrade - even the kitchen sink!

If anyone finds a steel one please post here as I've been looking for one and not found one so far.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

There was one being sold on Ebay, but it was advertised as aluminium, then they started selling identical ones that were aluminium, which makes it difficult to get the right one. This is the one, but it shows two different clamps. The first photo that shows the whole thing is the same as my steel one. You could ask the guy to check the main piece with a magnet.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=171470526298&alt=web

They're easy to spot because they have that red elastic around them

Here's another that looks ike steel judging by the welds and the tapped clamp plate. Zoom in and see what you think:

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=121719565192&alt=web

 

[Alan Quay]

There was one being sold on Ebay, but it was advertised as aluminium, then they started selling identical ones that were aluminium, which makes it difficult to get the right one. This is the one, but it shows two different clamps. The first photo that shows the whole thing is the same as my steel one. You could ask the guy to check the main piece with a magnet.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=171470526298&alt=web

They're easy to spot because they have that red elastic around them

Here's another that looks ike steel judging by the welds and the tapped clamp plate. Zoom in and see what you think:

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=121719565192&alt=web

Thanks for that, as soon as my wife and son stop consuming ALL available bandwidth I will ask the sellers.

I might ask him if he would like to swap it for a 40 y.o. housewife, or a small ginger boy.

 

[Alan Quay]

Thanks for that, as soon as my wife and son stop consuming ALL available bandwidth I will ask the sellers.

I might ask him if he would like to swap it for a 40 y.o. housewife, or a small ginger boy.

I bought the second one, and will let you know when it turns up. I get the feeling he/she has a few of them.

 

[anotherkiwi]

All your connectors will do the job. I never change yhem on my ikes, and I've not had any problems with them, except some of the cheap plastic overings on the bullets have melted at 30 amps. Most have silicone rubber overings these days. Just make sure that the bullets are tight and you hould be OK.

I just had one of the bullet connectors from the battery to the controller snap in half the other day when I was re-running the wiring on the bike after a few modifications. In my case cheap very hard plastic insulation was to blame. The black wire is now permanently soldered to the controller.

 

[handbaked]

Like the upgrade - Possible point of concern that I've seen d8 raise in many threads in the past:
You've used an aluminium alloy rack not a steel one - when it goes due to metal fatigue (and it will probably go as aluminium is less forgiving than steel when stressed) you will lose your battery. Suggest you replace the rack with a steel one!

Love that you used everything in this upgrade - even the kitchen sink!

Would not have ever thought of that. Good point though. Will change it (and add even more weight to the build)

 

[Alan Quay]

There was one being sold on Ebay, but it was advertised as aluminium, then they started selling identical ones that were aluminium, which makes it difficult to get the right one. This is the one, but it shows two different clamps. The first photo that shows the whole thing is the same as my steel one. You could ask the guy to check the main piece with a magnet.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=171470526298&alt=web

They're easy to spot because they have that red elastic around them

Here's another that looks ike steel judging by the welds and the tapped clamp plate. Zoom in and see what you think:

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=121719565192&alt=web

I can confirm the second one is steel.

 

[handbaked]

Ok well i have done my first 500km and the motor/battery side of things is holding up just fine. Sime other parts to the bike are not up to scratch. The chainring has already bent, there is too much weight over the back wheel due to the frame triangle size as well as other things.

So i am now midway through rebuilding onto a bigger frame and better overall bike. Pics to follow!