Bicycle Suspension

[mer]

I used to have an electric bike with no suspesion and skinny schwalbe marathon tyres . It was great for good roads ( with no bumps ) . If you have great roads around you with no bumps then by all means go for skinny high pressure tires and no suspension.

But , where I live the roads aren't perfect and for me ebiking is all about having fun , not going to work on perfect roads. I usually cycle off-road too. The non-suspension bike with the skinny tyres was HORRIBLE off-road or with not perfect roads ( especially when you hit 30+km/h ) and when I mean horrible I really mean it. My ass and back hurted like hell after an hour! Also front suspension does almost nothing for me. For example a 2.4 low inflated tyres do more than a good front suspension fork. I find rear suspension crucial for a comfortable ride.

Now I use a ( although cheap ) full suspension bike with fat tyres and the ride is AMAZING ! I dont even have to stand up when there are bumps.

Sometimes we tend to "overthink" about efficiency. I find the efficiency not that bad with my full suspension bike with fat tyres. Even just pedalling the full sus with fat tyres is OK with bafang ( excellent freewheel ) . I think my 48V 10AH lifepo4 would do like 18-19 miles rather than 15miles just on throttle , if it was on a non-suspension bike with skinny tyres.

Who cares about the 3-4 miles difference when the ride is SO comfortable .... Get a 15AH battery if you need more range... simple as that.

Have fun

 

[Footie]

The area where I live is a mecca holiday area, so one would expect the roads to be a good standard.
Well they are, if you keep on the main spine A and duel roads.
Get onto the single B roads and you'll have a rude awakening.
Get onto the unclassified roads and you'll think you’re off roading
There are the odd road sections where I've seen cycle racing but these are few and far between.
Near where I live we have the off road Camel Trail, which is a recycled railway line.
The bike hire stations hire utility bikes (no suspension) and a few MTB style bikes (ridged frame), as these are well suited to the flat, fine gravel, road. Cycle lanes are virtually none-existent here so it's road riding if you want to cycle anywhere.

Road riding means one is exposed to all the road imperfections; potholes, drain covers (usually raised or sunken never level) and deep cracks in re-surfaced roads (killer if you have skinny tyres). The narrow roads mean cycles are often forced in towards the hedge and this can become a dodgem course trying to avoid the rocks and debris that are regularly knocked out of the hedges. So to survive here your bike has to be able to take a lot of punishment. The numerous hills mean average bike road speed is low, but the fast down hill sections can be exhilarating - but you still have to avoid the imperfections, or you'll be eating tarmac. Hitting a pothole at 25-28mph can be lethal.

That's why I have an MTB style electric bike, with full suspension and chunky tyres, because it’s the best-suited type of bike for my roads.
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[morphix]

Very informative

Great posts on suspension, this is something I never given any thought to but certainly makes things as a lot clearer now on choosing my first electric bike.

 

[Mussels]

Thats why suspension is never seen in any form in racing on road or track, since it wastes energy. Only a very limited form of front suspension is seen in top level off road competition, and rear suspension never.

That is probably as much to do with the restrictive UCI rules as the laws of physics, without them we'd probably see much more innovation.

 

[flecc]

That is probably as much to do with the restrictive UCI rules as the laws of physics, without them we'd probably see much more innovation.

Certainly the UCI are ultra conservative, but I'm still absolutely certain that suspension wouldn't appear on a race or track bike. The efficiency losses and added weight would both be unacceptable and there'd be little benefit to gain on the road and none to gain on the track.

I would like to see a more relaxed view on recumbents though, totally barring them from any bicycle sport and forcing the creation of the HPVA is not acceptable.
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[gullrock]

I am trying to gain information about adding a front motor to my 2007 Marin Hybrid Kentfield FS with Spinner Odesa LX suspension forks. It seems that I need to ensure that they are not aluminium but are either steel or cromoly as ali is likely to be unsafe. Believe it or not after searching forums, using Google, emails to suppliers and so on I am still no nearer finding out what the forks are actually made of. Clearly I don't really want to go to the expense of changing the forks.
If anyone can shed some light on this I might be able to move the project forward and order a motor kit!!!!
Thanks in advance.

 

[flecc]

Alloy forks can be perfectly ok if you use an anti-torque arm locking the motor spindle flats to a fork leg.

Alloy is mainly unacceptable if relying on the drop-outs and tightness of the wheel nuts to oppose the considerable twisting force of the motor. Here's one example of an anti-torque arm, there are others on the market as well, so try a search for torque arm or anti-torque arm:

 

[gullrock]

Thanks for the torque arm idea. Won't the arm make it much more difficult to remove the wheel if I get a flat tyre?

Also as I am thinking of an Alien 36v 250w 10Amp road legal front wheel kit do you think it even necessary to fit one (I could lock the suspension)? The forks on my bike are CS Spinner Odesa ones with definately steel tops but the bottom sliders are something else having conducted a magnet test?

 

[flecc]

The arm does make wheel removal slower, but there's no need to remove a wheel for a puncture, indeed it's undesirable with a hub motor since it stresses the motor cable every time. The brake can be released and the tube repaired alongside the wheel. It's only the much more infrequent tyre/tube renewal that needs it.

You can go without the torque arm and there's no need to lock the forks, just check the front frequently to ensure there's been no movement or fork-opening stretch and the wheel nuts are still tight.
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[gullrock]

Thanks for the reply, very interesting about the forks as I have just been quoted between £60 - £80 for rigid ones!! Don't want to go down that route now!

Also just found out that to fit the cut-out brake levers and throttle supplied, I will have to remove the Shimano 7 speed thumb changer which is integrated with the brake lever on the RHS and also the 3 speed chain wheel one on LHS and replace with changers without brake levers!! That won't be too cheap either!

As a result I am now looking at the Sunlova kit for just over £400 but am usure if it is up to the mark?

 

[flecc]

I don't know the Sunlova kit, but member d8veh has entered a review in this site on both the kit and bike on this link.

It's worth reading right through and is revealing.
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[Morgann]

Would love to fit Big Apple tyres to my Kalkhoff but,looking at it, I wonder if I'm going to run into clearance problems. Has anyone done this? Big job or no?

I suspect that the V brakes are going to be the main stumbling block; can't really reduce the rim diameter

 

[Mussels]

Would love to fit Big Apple tyres to my Kalkhoff but,looking at it, I wonder if I'm going to run into clearance problems. Has anyone done this? Big job or no?

I suspect that the V brakes are going to be the main stumbling block; can't really reduce the rim diameter

You'll have to deflate the tyre to get it past the brakes but smaller tyres can have that problem anyway. The fit problem will be the frame, a good way to guess is to see how big the mudguards are. I had 600mm wide guards and the 600mm wide big apples just about fitted in the frame OK.

 

[flecc]

I usually just disconnect the V brake cable by pulling the noodle out of it's stirrup to get tyres to pass without deflating.

Kalkhoff mudguards are quite close fitting so the 2.35" width Big Apple almost certainly wouldn't fit. The 2" width ones might though.

 

[Morgann]

I usually just disconnect the V brake cable by pulling the noodle out of it's stirrup to get tyres to pass without deflating.

Kalkhoff mudguards are quite close fitting so the 2.35" width Big Apple almost certainly wouldn't fit. The 2" width ones might though.

Pity really 'cos I just ordered one from Amazon as an experiment.
I can always change the mudguards to flat rather than curved, I'm more concerned about the clearance at the top of the forks which, with the mudguard running through it as it does, looks a bit tight. Maybe a two piece mudguard?

 

[flecc]

Well. fingers crossed that it does just fit. I don't know which model you have but I think most will take the height of these tyres ok, it's more the width that might be a problem. If the height isn't ok, a two piece mudguard could be a solution to give that bit extra.

Please let us know if the fit is ok or not and confirm which size Big Apple you've bought.

 

[Morgann]

Will do.
This was my inspiration. Isn't it pretty?

Thudbuster seat post too... That's next.

 

[flecc]

Yes, that does look great. I've really liked the Kalkhoff bikes since reviewing one back in 2007/8, and I'm a fan of Big Apples when suspension is needed, preferring them to sprung forks etc.

 

[Morgann]

That was my plan. Soak up some of the bumps with the tyres then, use the seat post to take care of what's left.
Would a sprung gel saddle be over egging the pudding d'you think?
Raleigh do a fairly cheap one that would do as a test bed.

 

[flecc]

I like some plain gel saddles, but saddles are a very personal thing. Trying is really the only way, but I find that it takes a while living with any saddle to know if it really suits. Those that initially seem perfect can sometimes be really uncomfortable after a while and vice-versa.