Bicycle industry fights e-bike ‘tampering’

[guerney]

Are they talking about... us?

Bicycle industry fights e-bike ‘tampering’ – Pedelecs – Electric Bike Community

www.pedelecs.co.uk

 

[soundwave]

if bosch and haibike have signed it then why do they let ebike shop fit dongles to there bikes and honer the 2 year warranty?

ebike shop is one of the biggest ebike dealers in the uk and will fit there dongles to bosch Yamaha and the new tq motors and get warranty replacements.

 

[guerney]

if bosch and haibike have signed it then why do they let ebike shop fit dongles to there bikes and honer the 2 year warranty?

ebike shop is one of the biggest ebike dealers in the uk and will fit there dongles to bosch Yamaha and the new tq motors and get warranty replacements.

Shhh.. they'll hear you!

 

[soundwave]

it is not fair to other bike dealers simple as that but he can get away with it

 

[cyclebuddy]

ebike shop is one of the biggest ebike dealers in the uk and will fit there dongles to bosch Yamaha and the new tq motors and get warranty replacements.

My guess would be that Bosch assume a responsible dealer wouldn't do that, and ebike shop haven't told them. I doubt any maker would be happy replacing parts under warranty if there's a possibility they've been used beyond the parameters pre-set at the factory.

You could always email Bosch directly and ask them how ebike shop get away with it; the outcome may be that they lose their dealership/approved status.

My concern is that Bafang are on that list too. That a user can set their own parameters is one of the main reasons people buy them.

 

[Fordulike]

My concern is that Bafang are on that list too. That a user can set their own parameters is one of the main reasons people buy them.

Don't quote me, but I think Bafang won't be doing that anytime soon. At least with the BBS series anyway.

Fitting a BBS unit to a bike isn't one size fits all. It requires some degree of user programmability to match gearing to the unit. I certainly would have not fitted a BBS02, if it wasn't programmable.

 

[peter.c]

When i looked at the bafang m615 it mentions canbus on ali express
Bafang BBSHD Motor (Open To Offers) | spotted this one on ebay eBay and has 500watt -750watt and 1000watt versions

 

[wheeliepete]

I think Bafang have already entered the Canbus world with their M600 drive. There is now a new version of the BBs drive, which I believe is also Canbus. It's got a new jubilee clip frame fitting aswell, very 2010, reminds me of my GNG mid drive.

 

[guerney]

Does anyone know if the Bafang Canbus software is available anywhere for "Tamperers"?

 

[soundwave]

can bus is a hand shake system to force you to buy there batts displays chargers ect but tbh im not surprised.

imo you will be able to up the power settings but only using there batts!

dump the controller and use a different one if thats the case.

 

[soundwave]

What does "tuning" actually mean?
With the help of so-called "tuning dongles", as well as through chip tuning, it's possible to increase an eBike's maximum speed using the support provided by the motor. Legally speaking, whoever manipulates a pedelec and exceeds the actual 25 km/h support limit is no longer operating an electric bicycle with equivalent status to a non-motorised bicycle, but rather is riding a moped and must comply with the corresponding requirements when travelling on public roads!

The risk: The risk is posed by the fact that tuning kits and other types of manipulation can damage the drive system as well as the bike itself. If an accident is caused by tuning, it may result in high liability costs as well as criminal prosecution. You risk losing your guarantee and invalidating your warranty claims.

eBike tuning – illegal and dangerous

Technical manipulations to the pedelec are a safety risk. If an accident occurs, it may result in high liability costs and criminal prosecution. Bosch asks all eBike riders and providers to refrain from tuning.

www.bosch-ebike.com

but you can get a bike from ebike shop with a dongle and warranty lmfao!

 

[Addy1982]

It's all bluster to prevent restrictions being mandated by governments. The European car industry did it with the 155mph speed limit.

In reality, any anti tampering can be overcome. If there's a will, there's a way. That's why engine remapping is available for almost every car available, despite manufacturers making engine ecu's increasingly harder to crack.

 

[roymondo51]

What does "tuning" actually mean?
With the help of so-called "tuning dongles", as well as through chip tuning, it's possible to increase an eBike's maximum speed using the support provided by the motor. Legally speaking, whoever manipulates a pedelec and exceeds the actual 25 km/h support limit is no longer operating an electric bicycle with equivalent status to a non-motorised bicycle, but rather is riding a moped and must comply with the corresponding requirements when travelling on public roads!

The risk: The risk is posed by the fact that tuning kits and other types of manipulation can damage the drive system as well as the bike itself. If an accident is caused by tuning, it may result in high liability costs as well as criminal prosecution. You risk losing your guarantee and invalidating your warranty claims.

eBike tuning – illegal and dangerous

Technical manipulations to the pedelec are a safety risk. If an accident occurs, it may result in high liability costs and criminal prosecution. Bosch asks all eBike riders and providers to refrain from tuning.

www.bosch-ebike.com

but you can get a bike from ebike shop with a dongle and warranty lmfao!

I know you can't condone speed tampering on a site like this but having read some of the pious nonsense aimed at people who do it in an earlier post ... "speed freaks" giving cycling a bad name I feel I need to address that criticism. I have ridden a road bike for more than 50 years. I'm no speed freak but 15.5mph is 10 or 15% below my average speed when I'm on a decent surface and its flat or just a slight up/down slope. What that means is when I ride an electric bike sold in the UK which has not been tampered with it offers me little or no assistance ... good for moving off from a standing start and hills but otherwise useless. Since 90% of my riding is on flattish roads and tracks the speed limiter does nothing to assist me, unless I choose a low level of assistance and limit myself to speeds 1significantly below what I would travel at on my old road bike. When I bought an electric bike it was to assist me, now I'm in my 70s, to ride as I always had but with less effort. So I've tampered with the bike so I can achieve just that. I thought the whole point of leaving the EU was so we could get rid of European Nanny-State regulations but actually its just to give our government the means to seize more power.

 

[AndyBike]

So I've tampered with the bike so I can achieve just that. I thought the whole point of leaving the EU was so we could get rid of European Nanny-State regulations but actually its just to give our government the means to seize more power.

'EU' Nanny state' Sorry but this is just nonsense to excuse what you've done but rest assured none of it will wash should you seriously injure yourself in an accident. Forget compensation, and how would you feel about having to pay a final bill that could run into many thousands of pounds, then of course there's the legal aspect on how the law is if you cause the accident and knock someone over, even if it's likely the pedestrians own fault from not looking or such, they'd throw the book at you and you could even end up sitting in a prison cell.
As to nanny state regulations, those are in place to keep you safe, and if you're dumb enough to think they are some sort of attack on your freedom, you rank in the idiocy group.

And all so you can go a couple of miles per hour faster.

Beggars belief.

 

[soundwave]

, even if it's likely the pedestrians own fault from not looking or such, they'd throw the book at you

E-bike cyclist cleared of killing Hackney pedestrian

E-bike cyclist cleared of killing Hackney pedestrian

Thomas Hanlon had denied causing the death of Sakine Cihan while riding a modified e-bike in 2018.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[AndyBike]

Oh well that makes it ok and every set of circumstances will be the same.
Besides, that story is 18months old of an incident 3 years old. And Im pretty sure this is going to haunt him for the rest of his life.

 

[soundwave]

i have had my bike with a dongle on it since 2014 it has never been a problem with anyone inc police they are not interested, and that goes for all the scooters and skateboards being used as well.

and it is just not here in new york the ebike speed limit is 20mph and no one takes any notice of it over there either.

since i have been a member on this forum not one person has been pulled over because of braking the 15mph speed limit.

 

[flecc]

I'm no speed freak but 15.5mph is 10 or 15% below my average speed when I'm on a decent surface and its flat or just a slight up/down slope. What that means is when I ride an electric bike sold in the UK which has not been tampered with it offers me little or no assistance ... good for moving off from a standing start and hills but otherwise useless. Since 90% of my riding is on flattish roads and tracks the speed limiter does nothing to assist me

So what you've said is that you don't need assistance to cycle. The exemption from being a motor vehicle (which is what the pedelec law is) is to assist those who actually need it, not to allow anyone to ride at their chosen preferred speed.

Nor is the regulation EU nanny state law, it happens to be a very widely adopted standard in the world which originated on the other side of the planet. The 25 kph assist limit is based on the way the great majority of the world cycles, which is below 15 mph, commonly far below. True of Britain originally too where long ago the great majority were utility cyclists who cycled at 10 to 12 mph.

And you can have a pedelec that legally assists you at any speed up to 28 mph (45kph). Just buy an S class speed pedelec and register it witn the DVLA as an L1e-B moped.
.

 

[Nealh]

I'm over 15.5mph on every ride, it's not hard to go over unassisted and isn't illegal. All the 15.5 limit doe sis to allow me to reach it with less effort so more of my energy can be used to go above it.

 

[soundwave]

So what you've said is that you don't need assistance to cycle. The exemption from being a motor vehicle (which is what the pedelec law is) is to assist those who actually need it, not to allow anyone to ride at their chosen preferred speed.

Nor is the regulation EU nanny state law, it happens to be a very widely adopted standard in the world which originated on the other side of the planet. The 25 kph assist limit is based on the way the great majority of the world cycles, which is below 15 mph, commonly far below. True of Britain originally too where long ago the great majority were utility cyclists who cycled at 10 to 12 mph.

And you can have a pedelec that legally assists you at any speed up to 28 mph (45kph). Just buy an S class speed pedelec and register it witn the DVLA as an L1e-B moped.
.

i get where he is coming from tho as i use a dongle to keep up with m8s on bike rides as fit riders and can keep going all day long with avg speed over 15mph id be left for dust!

if you try a red or lack trail at a bike park a 15mph limit is a death wish you can clear a 20ft wide table top going that slow.

they also recently spent 1 million quid tarmacking the canal path all the way to Gloucester docks and was a gravel path b4 now every one is using it scooters road bikes dog walkers runners ect and last week dumped about 50 tons of small stones on the one part from the pub imo to stop all the scooters and now like a sand pit full of small stones.