BH Emotion serious problems

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
4,732
2,312
Hubs are good due to less maintenance, only one sprocket to get dirty and the higher chain line also keeps the chain cleaner.

As I mentioned earlier, the Bosch crank drive is de-tuned for hubs, so if you want a hub something like a Panasonic would give more power - assuming they are not de-tuned.

Another Panasonic advantage is you can get higher capacity batteries.
 
OK a bit of history to my Neo issue, and an attempt to move forward.

The original wheel started to snap spokes on a regular basis. After many in shop replacements it went back to BH for a full rebuild and the BH importer lent me a crank based BH bike for the duration. It took BH around 3 months to fix it, as they insisted on fixing it rather than replacing it. I had no broken spokes at all on the BH crank based bike, which was nice, but less powerful than the hub based NEO, and also didn't have disk brakes. which I do like on the NEO.

The NEO came back. Snap snap snap for a while, then OK, then it developed a horrid bearing squeak. Wheel back to BH for a bearing replacement, with a brand new wheel as an interim measure.

New wheel, snap snap,snap,snap,snap,snap,snap,snap eventually snapping spokes every week. Full rebuild by dealer rather than BH with much better spokes.............all OK for a couple of months, then snap on Friday.

So I'll discuss another rebuild with the dealer, asking about double butted spokes, and maybe go ahead with that. If that isn't a goer or it happens and they break again, time to get a crank based solution, possibly with hub gears.
 
Oh, and a note on riding style, build etc. 6'2, 14 stone 3, 95% of journey on smooth flat roads or cycle paths. Occasional small bumps or potholes, nothing massive. Max speed on the flat around 30km/h, 45 down big hills. Riding style, careful and steady, no kerb jumping for instance.In fact I cycle REALLY carefully.
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
do you have a spoke key to tighten the spokes yourself? and do you ping your spokes every day to find out if any of them getting loose? Spokes are under a great deal of stress when the bike rocks side to side or decelerates suddenly (braking hard or hitting a speed bump)
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
Then you have to learn to true the wheel yourself. It'll take an hour to learn the basic with a youtube video.
Spokes only break after the wheel is out of true. Spokes only work if tensioned adequately. Too much tension causes the rim to be out of true and dammages the spoke holes in the rim, too little tension and they break.
 

Croxden

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2013
2,134
1,384
North Staffs
Crank it is then. Hub or derailleur gears?
I have just had my new bike and asked for Rohloff 14 speed hub gears. Some think it's a little overboard for a power assisted bike, but I found otherwise. A bigger range than my old derailleur bike but jolly useful. Only problem is the cost but for me worth it.
 

maloflora

Pedelecer
Nov 13, 2012
40
1
Hi all,

Been a bit of a pause in this discussion. :)

I've moved to a KTM Macina which has been excellent for the last four months - not quite as powerful as the BH but very reliable and feels like a lovely normal bike.

I'd appreciate any advice on what to do with the BH - still only a year old and working well, but with one spoke broken on the rear wheel. Anyone here want it? Or shall I auction?

Thanks!
 

nemesis

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 14, 2011
521
343
Take it to paul at hewitte cycles in leyland,according to those in the know he is the best wheelbuilder in the uk.
 
Yes, get it rebuilt by a decent wheel builder. It took two rebuilds on mine to sort things out, but I've had no problems on the wheel since.

The range is dropping quite dramatically now on my BH, it's done 10,000km but will struggle to do more than 15 miles on my hilly commute route. Academic now though really as I'm changing jobs and will be driving to work, so the BH will have a leisurely semi retirement.
 

maloflora

Pedelecer
Nov 13, 2012
40
1
Thanks for responses. To be honest I don't really need it at all with the new Macina, so am looking to sell. Is the advice to repair and then auction?
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
auction and post a link here.
You can cancel it easily if any member is buying it.
 

Aerobelly

Just Joined
Jun 18, 2014
1
0
65
I bought a Neo cross last September and immediately started breaking spokes.

Been through the whole rebuild business several times, and have come to the following conclusion...

The problem is one of design. The Neo motor has spoke holes that are counter-sunk on BOTH sides, leaving the spoke elbow unsupported. This allows the spokes to flex, work-harden, become brittle, and break. They don't need to flex much, but they get flexed about 800 times a mile, 120,000 times a week - it all adds up.

My best solution so far is to place 7BA (NOT 8BA) brass washers behind the the head of the spoke. This pulls them into the hub and reduces flexing.

This is not a new solution. Its mentioned by Sheldon Brown in his article on wheel building. However, most bike spokes are 14 Gauge, and use an 8BA brass washer. Electric Bike spokes are normally 13 Gauge and require a washer with a bigger hole, so 7BA. Don't buy from a bike shop, you need to try a model shop. I get mine from Macclesfield Model Engineering at about a tenth the cost of a bike shop.

Spokes - Sapim Strong, DT Swiss Alpine or Alpine III. If you use DT Swiss they are supplied with nipples that are not designed to allow much of an angle at the rim. Saphim Polyax nipples are much better (read on!)

Getting the washers behind the spoke head is a struggle. You need to pre-dish them. Find a thick bit of metal - an 18mm bolt is good enough - and drill a 3mm diameter hole about 10mm deep, next use a 7mm drill to drill a couple of mm into the 3mm hole, effectively counter-sinking the hole so that it looks like one of the spoke holes in the motor. (The measurements are not critical, I just happened to have the bolt and drills in my garage. The 3mm hole is just to stop the punch hitting the bottom of the 7mm counter-sink)

The 7BA Brass washers can now be placed into the hole you have just drilled and with a light tap and a centre punch or phillips screwdriver, can be dished. Now these can be place on the spoke before it is threaded into the hub.

This will shift the problem to the other end of the spoke (At least it did for me). If you look at almost any eBike motorised wheel, you will notice that there is a bend at the nipple. As with the hub, this end will flex and break. Why it doesn't - I can only assume it is ok in most wheels, but mine started snapping.

If you rebuild using standard bike spokes, listed above, the nipples are slightly smaller than those used in the bike as it is supplied, and with the polyax nipples there should be enough space to allow a fairly straight entry. If you are lucky enough to get some spokes out of BH (rocking horse s**t is more common) then gently filing the holes (don't drill, the holes will come out triangular, best to get a reamer. If you don't know what this means, a file is just fine).

If you want a really professional finish, contact Team Hybrid. They have some really nice rims which are dimpled and drilled at an angle specifically for big hub motors (and while you are there wonder why you did not buy one of their Falco conversions - Dear Santa...)

By the way - DO NOT use eyeleted or double-eyeleted rims! They are great with a normal hub, but with the diameter of a motorised wheel they will not allow for the necessary entry angle for the spokes.

I cant say for certain that this is going to solve the problem. I weight 150Kg and commute 30 miles a day on my bike. So far I have managed to travel twice as far as ever before without breaking a spoke. The only one that did break (On my second run) with the above design did not have a washer behind the head (Which is when I came up with the dishing idea)

If this fails - contact Central Wheel Components - they sell car spokes. The biggest problem is that if you end up unzipping the rim with the big holes you will need to get the nipples through.

If this does not work - then I have a cunning plan!
 

Palle

Just Joined
Sep 10, 2014
1
0
48
Have any of you guys considered to start in low assist ?

If you drive a Porsche 911 you don't start in 5 gear. I can. I Promise. But you will ruin the clouch and so on.

So use the low assist when you start. The engine has too much torgue at start in Boost mode.
 

steve.c

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 16, 2011
302
42
73
Exeter Devon
My Freego Eagle broke spokes in the rear wheel a lot when I bought it a few years ago but it seams to be OK now although I have just had another one go a week ago ????.
Steve.
 

Emo Rider

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 10, 2014
659
414
Wheels, like every other part of your bike, should be subjected to routine inspection and maintenance. I have a BH City 700 which I use to commute 15 miles daily. I have had a broken spoke which happened in the first 100 miles. Since then I check them about every three months. Some times there have been loose spokes,other times not. If you had issues in the past, how often did you have your bike serviced since then? Does the mechanic check the spokes routinely or do you have to ask?
 

Electrifying Cycles

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 4, 2011
1,005
176
Our experience. BH would not send us parts to repair bike instead they were supposed to collect the bike this week which did not happen. Apparently they do not want to send parts out because it could be one of several things. Fair enough, would prefer to have parts so we are in control but it does not inspire much confidence when you cannot even collect the bike in the week stated. We can loan them a bike but to me this experience is not acceptable. I for one will not accept poor service from our suppliers. I have ditched a few suppliers because of this.
 
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