Beyond Presteigne...
- Thread starter halfmedley
- Start date
Ian
but what a good site for the rally, how many times can you cross the humber bridge on one charge, and its free to walk or bike.
mike
let me know when and we could probaly be the first two to do it,may even get the press there, and we could open a bottle of champers in the middle.
but what a good site for the rally, how many times can you cross the humber bridge on one charge, and its free to walk or bike.
mike
Yes Mike, it would be a great place to hold a rally, what's the car parking like, as although it goes against the grain, most of would have to drive there, or at least to the immediate area.
Hehehe! What an image! - brings to mind the Tour de Blackpool all over again!mike said:
From what I've read on this forum about bike trailers, anyone standing too close may get more than an eyeful, and not of bikes, when the trailers make a bid for freedom! - cat litter, wasn't it?! Bridges are uniquely symbolic, not a bad idea - how long is it? More to the point though, how busy is the traffic?
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coops
Ian good car parking both sides
mike
cant remember how long but you ride on the path with bikes.
Ian good car parking both sides
mike
Mike will probably correct me but it must be about a mile long, maybe more with the approaches. There is a cycle/foot path separate from the carriageways so no traffic to worry about on the bridge, not sure about the approaches but Mike probably knows. Pic herehow long is it? More to the point though, how busy is the traffic?
PS Mike beat me to it... and he doesn't know how long
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Thanks for the info & pic Ian, and I think that link really is as you say mike, thanks!:
Looks from my road atlas to be just over a mile span over water, not including any approach, not the most accurate info though. Cycle path looks good & smooth
A mile could be covered in about 4-5 mins though, and is a little tricky to make a circular route with only one crossing! Unless a sort of "figure 8" route could be done with loops either side of the bridge & crossing it in both directions; that would depend on local cycle route possibilities though: does the cycle path end at either side of the bridge or continue?
Could otherwise take a boat across
Is there some tradition of cycling over the humber bridge, or just coincidence that photo shows cyclists?
Looks from my road atlas to be just over a mile span over water, not including any approach, not the most accurate info though. Cycle path looks good & smooth
A mile could be covered in about 4-5 mins though, and is a little tricky to make a circular route with only one crossing! Unless a sort of "figure 8" route could be done with loops either side of the bridge & crossing it in both directions; that would depend on local cycle route possibilities though: does the cycle path end at either side of the bridge or continue?
Could otherwise take a boat across
The sustrans map gives a bit more detail, off road cycle routes shown green, on road red, the blue grid is 1km spacing. looks like the path is only on the west side so a circular route is not possible (except maybe for one of Fleccs creations ). Perhaps a suitable route would be between the railway stations, a return trip must be 4 miles and would involve a climb and descent of 30m each way.
There's no tradition of cycling the bridge that I'm aware of Stuart, the photo came from a search of google images for "humber bridge cycle". My motivation for wanting to do it is mainly to enjoy the view in a way that hasn't been possible the few times I've driven across.
). Perhaps a suitable route would be between the railway stations, a return trip must be 4 miles and would involve a climb and descent of 30m each way.There's no tradition of cycling the bridge that I'm aware of Stuart, the photo came from a search of google images for "humber bridge cycle". My motivation for wanting to do it is mainly to enjoy the view in a way that hasn't been possible the few times I've driven across.
The Q jet ski/wind/kite-surfing conversion kit not complete yet then, eh?
I know - I've been seeing them all dayflecc said:Oh oh, I can already see a Grandad cartoon.
On a more serious note, now you've mentioned sustrans Ian, I think it would be great to hold some sort of event at a location which highlights both ebikes and "provision/allowance" for cleaner "alternative" transport to combustion motor vehicles, by holding it at a site where such provision exists and works.
Too many of our roads are just plain dangerous for cyclists because of cars etc. and I'm fed up of suffering their waste products aswell as risking my safety just trying to escape from the unhealthy smog they mostly created in the first place!!
Many of my local cycleways are just badly designed, implemented and abused, and I was just thinking today that if cars kept to 20 or 30mph limits, the roads may not be quite so unsafe for cyclists or pedestrians: they are a joke. There are some local 20mph zones here now, with traffic-calming measures, and I must say I feel a bit safer & more relaxed on these roads (probably because there's few cars etc. using them!) despite some of the absurd measures used - I wish there were a network of such zones, and a map showing them, so that I could plan my routes along them.
My point is, I suppose, that poorly planned cycleways which require all kinds of hoops to be jumped through, and still require roads to be used at times, are neither a good nor a cost effective transport "solution". Why shouldn't roads be shared, and why should a cyclist feel that he's being "permitted" to use a road as a sort of concession or favour? It's not right.
Rant over.
I recall reading somewhere that Stevenage was supposedly designed with cyclists in mind, though I don't know the reality of that. Is there anywhere that anyone knows of which provides well for the needs of cyclists in today's car dominated transport system?
Too many of our roads are just plain dangerous for cyclists because of cars etc. and I'm fed up of suffering their waste products aswell as risking my safety just trying to escape from the unhealthy smog they mostly created in the first place!!
Many of my local cycleways are just badly designed, implemented and abused, and I was just thinking today that if cars kept to 20 or 30mph limits, the roads may not be quite so unsafe for cyclists or pedestrians: they are a joke. There are some local 20mph zones here now, with traffic-calming measures, and I must say I feel a bit safer & more relaxed on these roads (probably because there's few cars etc. using them!) despite some of the absurd measures used - I wish there were a network of such zones, and a map showing them, so that I could plan my routes along them.
My point is, I suppose, that poorly planned cycleways which require all kinds of hoops to be jumped through, and still require roads to be used at times, are neither a good nor a cost effective transport "solution". Why shouldn't roads be shared, and why should a cyclist feel that he's being "permitted" to use a road as a sort of concession or favour? It's not right.
Rant over
.I recall reading somewhere that Stevenage was supposedly designed with cyclists in mind, though I don't know the reality of that. Is there anywhere that anyone knows of which provides well for the needs of cyclists in today's car dominated transport system?
While I think we could all agree that many cycle routes are poorly designed, poorly maintained, or both - the issue with road users is not the planning or the speed limits - it is the other road users!On a more serious note, now you've mentioned sustrans Ian, I think it would be great to hold some sort of event at a location which highlights both ebikes and "provision/allowance" for cleaner "alternative" transport to combustion motor vehicles, by holding it at a site where such provision exists and works.
Too many of our roads are just plain dangerous for cyclists because of cars etc. and I'm fed up of suffering their waste products aswell as risking my safety just trying to escape from the unhealthy smog they mostly created in the first place!!
Many of my local cycleways are just badly designed, implemented and abused, and I was just thinking today that if cars kept to 20 or 30mph limits, the roads may not be quite so unsafe for cyclists or pedestrians: they are a joke. There are some local 20mph zones here now, with traffic-calming measures, and I must say I feel a bit safer & more relaxed on these roads (probably because there's few cars etc. using them!) despite some of the absurd measures used - I wish there were a network of such zones, and a map showing them, so that I could plan my routes along them.
My point is, I suppose, that poorly planned cycleways which require all kinds of hoops to be jumped through, and still require roads to be used at times, are neither a good nor a cost effective transport "solution". Why shouldn't roads be shared, and why should a cyclist feel that he's being "permitted" to use a road as a sort of concession or favour? It's not right.
Rant over
I recall reading somewhere that Stevenage was supposedly designed with cyclists in mind, though I don't know the reality of that. Is there anywhere that anyone knows of which provides well for the needs of cyclists in today's car dominated transport system?
Driving standards have dropped during my driving lifetime (the last 17 years) appreciably - people drive faster and more recklessly then they used to. Situational awareness as dropped, and very few people show any courtesy at all to other cars, let alone bicycles. Too many people show an agressive, competitive nature on the roads, serene in their insulated bubble where they can view other peope like dirt and drive away after doing so.
I believe this to reflect a change in attitude in society, a general drop in consideration for others and a pervasiveness selfishness. So in terms of how cyclists get treated on the road, it is not just a transport planning problem.
Nigel
We just
had about 2 miles of cycle path done in southampton on a busy road BUT?the council decided they would do the road surface as well but they didnt do a proper job instead of laying tarmac and leaving a smooth surface they dumped lorry loads of sharp stones and yes you guessed it the cycle path is now covered in sharp stones its planning gone mad or cyclists dont matter.NIGEL
We just
had about 2 miles of cycle path done in southampton on a busy road BUT?the council decided they would do the road surface as well but they didnt do a proper job instead of laying tarmac and leaving a smooth surface they dumped lorry loads of sharp stones
and yes you guessed it the cycle path is now covered in sharp stones its planning gone mad or cyclists dont matter.NIGELI lived in Milton Keynes many years ago and that has a marvellous system of "redways" - basically pavements separated from the road, usually by a grass verge and/or shrubs which are well lit and wide enough for both pedestrians and cyclists to co-exist quite happily.
Potential venue for an ebike event?
Potential venue for an ebike event?
Yes I think so halfmedley, from your description that sounds good.halfmedley said:
In addition to being an opportunity for people to view & try out different bikes, it occurs to me (thanks David!) that any event, especially if it is in an already "busy" area, should be planned very thoughtfully to have only a positive "impact": to avoid disruption to others (perhaps pedestrians especially), to show how bikes/ebikes can make "traffic flow" much safer, cleaner, quieter, more efficient & friendly, so that those who are open to it may benefit, while not causing those who aren't any negative effects (which may only compound any already existing problem), and to also maximise publicity while off-road at the event. (Perhaps this is part of the wisdom employed in the annual Presteigne event?)
I agree with what you said David, and I think you've hit the nail on the head
although my "rant" was against several dangers of today's all-pervasive motor society to life/health i.e. speed, pollutants, noise etc. it is only by people changing their actions (either voluntarily e.g. change of mind or by compulsion e.g. no fuel!) that relative safety can be reinstated: unless one or both of these happen to some degree, I fear that not only will cyclists continue to be in danger (being "overlooked" or unconsidered by many motorists/planners), but neither will people consider taking up cycling to make a cleaner, healthier alternative transport (i.e. the two issues are very definitely closely linked) and nor will there be any momentum generated to change that anytime soon.I can understand other motorists' frustration at being stuck in traffic (and thats a possibility every time you go out), especially on short journeys, and the stress of being on the roads because I share that every time I go out on the bike! If only more people didn't unnecessarily fill the roads with traffic - not just avoid making trips by car etc. unnecessarily when bike or foot would suffice, but avoiding unnecessary trips full-stop! Then that stress may be eased somewhat
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I'm sorry that so many of you suffer from being crowded out by traffic - all I can say is, come and have a holiday in Shropshire! Apart from the Shrewsbury ring road at peak times, and the A49, most roads in Shropshire are uncongested, and there are plenty of small lanes with virtually no traffic on at all. North Shropshire is quite flat but still pretty and has some nice small towns like Ellesmere and Whitchurch for refreshments, as well as canal paths. South Shropshire (where I live) has loads of hills and most of it is an area of outstanding natural beauty, so each hill climb is rewarded with fantastic views. The population of South Shrops is 40,000 which will give you some idea of how sparsely populated it is. Now seeing that several of you come from the Manchester area, I'd suggest you pack your bikes up and have a week cycling round Shropshire, and you'll feel that life can be good again. I wouldn't normally tell people to come here, as I don't want the place to get any more crowded, but fellow cyclists are always welcome! If you're passing through Hope Valley, a welcome and a cup of tea awaits you!
Thanks Alan, that's very thoughtful of you: I've stayed in Shropshire many times in the past and absolutely agree: its a beautiful area (Shhhhhhhh!) - many fantastic views, and Hope Valley sounds idyllic I think you're right & its time I revisited the area
On the Milton Keynes idea, an article on the redway system suggests that the cycle ways, while innovative, are not ideal: the concept of "underpasses" is not convenient for normal bikes, nor optimum for ebikes, since frequent gradient changes would drain energy. The situation in Stevenage may be similar, with "sunken roundabouts" for bikes, though I'm not sure of that.
Still, that's not to say they're unsuitable for ebike events, and MK has good transport links and is quite central too. Doesn't have the reputation for being the most exciting place but that may be undeserved, and who needs it anyway? (don't answer that!).
On the subject of road use, if electric bikes are considered as part of a "sustainable development/living" idea (by any definition), then I guess in the end its not about how bikes/alternative transport should be "integrated" into existing developments, but how development itself should be done, or not , which I suppose in the end boils down to people's mentality, "planners" in particular, and behaviour.
And whether or not its relevant or useful to link an electric bike event to such or not is, to me, an interesting question: what do others think? Its only a possibility, and I'm reconsidering its wisdom. I'd rather have an event in not too large a built-up area but also think, as halfmedley said, that it should be accessible to as many people & bikes as possible.
From what I've read, "new" towns like Stevenage, built in the 40's, were designed very much with cyclists in mind. I've not been there nor read much on it so I don't know how well they've succeeded, but it seems to me the plan was either very far-sighted, or that the demand for an alternative transport infrastructure is cyclical ('scuse the pun, not intended!), or maybe both.
I wonder what Gordon Brown & co. have planned for the new "new towns", and whether its any different or better?
I think you're right & its time I revisited the area On the Milton Keynes idea, an article on the redway system suggests that the cycle ways, while innovative, are not ideal: the concept of "underpasses" is not convenient for normal bikes, nor optimum for ebikes, since frequent gradient changes would drain energy. The situation in Stevenage may be similar, with "sunken roundabouts" for bikes, though I'm not sure of that.
Still, that's not to say they're unsuitable for ebike events, and MK has good transport links and is quite central too. Doesn't have the reputation for being the most exciting place
but that may be undeserved, and who needs it anyway? (don't answer that!).On the subject of road use, if electric bikes are considered as part of a "sustainable development/living" idea (by any definition), then I guess in the end its not about how bikes/alternative transport should be "integrated" into existing developments, but how development itself should be done, or not
, which I suppose in the end boils down to people's mentality, "planners" in particular, and behaviour.And whether or not its relevant or useful to link an electric bike event to such or not is, to me, an interesting question: what do others think? Its only a possibility, and I'm reconsidering its wisdom. I'd rather have an event in not too large a built-up area but also think, as halfmedley said, that it should be accessible to as many people & bikes as possible.
From what I've read, "new" towns like Stevenage, built in the 40's, were designed very much with cyclists in mind. I've not been there nor read much on it so I don't know how well they've succeeded, but it seems to me the plan was either very far-sighted, or that the demand for an alternative transport infrastructure is cyclical ('scuse the pun, not intended!), or maybe both.
I wonder what Gordon Brown & co. have planned for the new "new towns", and whether its any different or better?
Not far sighted Stuart, but simply a reflection that more than half the working population went to work by bike in the 1940s and '50s. Car ownership was almost unknown since nearly all the relatively small number of cars that existed in 1939 were requisitioned for the war effort and didn't survive the conflict.
Virtually all vehicle production from our factories post war went to the USA to pay off our Marshall Plan debt incurred in fighting the war, with only a tiny number of top priority users allocated a new car. Even bikes were scarce, we'd get a couple a year into our Raleigh and Hercules dealership in the early 1950s.
Car ownership growth started in the 1960s, and didn't reach an appreciable number until the 1970s. For example, when I went out clubbing in London's West End a couple of times a week in the mid '60s, I'd park my Vauxhall on Piccadilly Circus itself. Try that now!
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coops
will they have tarmac roads and paths
will ic vehicles be allowed in
if so will single occupancy be allowed in ic vehicles
will they be built within eco friendly transport range of work centres
will they be on green field sites or brown
and many more questions
or will as i suspect be a publicity stunt,with extra insulation and a few solar panels.
as somebody else mentioned politics, i thought i would mix politics and religion, i always thought tony blair would want a top job in Europe when he abdicated, but now i hear he is turning catholic, i think i now know what job he wants.
mike
must admit when i heard his intention several thoughts went through my mind "eco friendly towns" i think was the phrase
will they have tarmac roads and paths
will ic vehicles be allowed in
if so will single occupancy be allowed in ic vehicles
will they be built within eco friendly transport range of work centres
will they be on green field sites or brown
and many more questions
or will as i suspect be a publicity stunt,with extra insulation and a few solar panels.
as somebody else mentioned politics, i thought i would mix politics and religion, i always thought tony blair would want a top job in Europe when he abdicated, but now i hear he is turning catholic, i think i now know what job he wants.
mike
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