Best place to buy Tongxin motors ?

emissions-free

Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2009
176
0
Shanghai
They are 12.5" wheels with 12.5" * 2.25" tyres. I haven't fitted a cycle computer to it yet but it must doing some very high rpm to get that speed and all at only 24V.

I'm really impressed with it. It would be very straight forward to add a small additional battery pack to it with say 16 * 3.2V 3Ah lifepo4 cells. In 8 series, 2 parallel that would give a nominal 24V 6Ah and would weigh only about 1.5kg.
 

daniel.weck

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 8, 2009
1,229
2
Frank actually seems involved in this group-buy !

Rough translation from Google:

"
10A is the maximum which tolerates the engine, there is more to be said. This I know from bitter experience as I have programmed the controller to customer wishes to 14A and the motors are several ways drafted into the happy hunting grounds.

In the controller of the bulk order is of course the pedal sensor and the 3Stufenschalter already included, as an indication that I was repeatedly asked. Therefore, it is actually cheaper than the 44Euro for Crazyman where it needs to be bought and no guarantee is given, and no individual programming as I offering to you.

The Oliver and Ingo enter here proper effort and the whole thing works only because Oliver, Ingo and I trust each other.
Otherwise I would not have passed the contact and Oliver would not go so much in advance and Ingo rumkriegen the day would also certainly different packages to pack for warm.

I thought it's time to make clear the time to keep those who organized the whole thing, and the framework within which the actually happens, and in this context, one should then also.

Gruss
frank
"

-------------

"
Hello to all of the controller order,

It can of course also other accessories are ordered.
The controller has 3Stufen with the standard 3Stufenschalter but if someone wants to have the 11Stufenteil easy to order for 17Euro in this special action and the HalbeGasgriff goes mitzuordern or display for 17Euro (but must be wired myself) By the way, the 11Stufendisplay is only 5cm so it looks not so bad out ;-)

The software and data cables can be ordered for 30Euro also guaranteeing the loss and please only people who know their way around on the computer because I was no tuition. As a user, there is only something I had my time sucked out of the fingers by the developer because there is nothing.

The controller can run both in the level mode as well be driven only by throttle or stop one 11Stufenschalter or 3StufenDisplay

Everyone should also tell me his dream setup for the stairs, if he has one, in% of rated speed. Programs are all on 10amp unless someone wants something else, it comes down to 7A. The amps are about to be downward tendency, if one heist 10A enters set it also comes from the fact 9A

I rise to all the allowed time monday because I liked doing everything in one and Sunday's closure of the ordering assumption.
Oh yes, up to 70mails from within and abroad every day, it can also happen once that I overlooked a mail (after 4days if nothing is done, again ask "hey how is it going")

Please most of my e-mail address and writing not as a PN in the forum for the e-mail several times each day and spotted the PN fold rather rare. I think everyone here knows my site with mail address, thank you.

Clearly, I need to every request with the name and address so I can set the controller in order to label Ingo can then identify what belongs to whom.
Ingo will receive from me a list of the things that he ordered the accessories parts can assign

I beg you, but with the order not to overdo it because it will be a limited action, and Ingo vereinahmt should not be unduly so after the moto he had shaken hands and the arm is pulled down.
For everything there will still be in my shop and that more rather than less and I do not believe that most have to eat it again if it dies out a few dollars more expensive

Gruss
frank
"


I don't read German, but it looks like the Pedelec forum there is organizing a group-buy for Tongxin motors:

Tongxin Sammelbestellung - Seite 6 - Pedelec-Forum

Date : 2009-11-15

From : Dongguan Desheng Industrial Co., Ltd

Invoice

Product ID

Description

Quantity

Price/1FOBdongguanUSD

Amount/USD

Tongxin motor TXM-F80

36V / 26 Zoll / 195 U/min

7

78.00

546.00

Tongxin motor TXM-F80

36V / 20 Zoll / 260 U/min

3

78.00

234.00

Tongxin motor TXM-F80

36V / 28 Zoll / 175 U/min

9

78.00

702.00

Shipping cost

By DHL

620.00

Total

2102.00
 

emissions-free

Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2009
176
0
Shanghai
If you want a group buy on Tongxin motors let me know and I'll see what I can do. If the above is their sample price then shouldn't be a problem fixing the same. I'll ship it however you like :) Can't say fairer than that.
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
Well I have taken the plunge and handed over my cash to this Chinese contact from the German Pedlec forum :eek:

I have gone for two full kits 36v 260RPM 80mm motors with controllers etc.

After postage and packing and import duty it gonna work out at around £150 per full kit plus of course a wheel build which I am still thinking about doing myself anyway. This works out quite a bit cheaper than the only two kit suppliers we seem to have and as I purchased two, I figured this way I would also have spares :p

Its amazing how difficult this whole process has proven. When I finally decided to go for EWC they told me they were awaiting parts so then I went to Freedom E and they said they were now out of stock as well and it would be another 3 weeks till they could get one to me.

Anyway I will keep you all posted it could all still go horribly wrong lol

Regards

Jerry
 

Pedalo

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 10, 2009
443
1
Good luck with it Jerry! Looking forward to your report. Do you have your Brompton now? (Vaguely thinking about getting a S/H one!)
 

daniel.weck

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 8, 2009
1,229
2
Congrats Jerry. Best of luck with the shipping, duties, etc. :D

As for buying a Brompton second-hand: there's tons of them every week on eBay and GumTree...quite a few stolen examples too (often the cheapest of the lot, with no receipts, dodgy history given by the seller). I would say: do the community a favor and buy a B from a honest owner :) Old frames are still under warranty (10 years), newer ones only have a 5-year warranty (but are supposedly stronger). The old frame has a longer wheel base, the aluminium handle bar is made of a weaker compound, etc. You should register at the BromptonTalk@Yahoo.com group, as you would be able to get plenty of advice from there. ;)

Cheers, Dan
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
Thanks for the comments.

Good luck with it Jerry! Looking forward to your report. Do you have your Brompton now? (Vaguely thinking about getting a S/H one!)
I am hoping finally today to hear that the Cycle To Work scheme payment has paid the shop and they will post it out to me.

If you work and your company can reclaim the VAT I would strongly recommend this route.

Regards

Jerry
 

Pedalo

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 10, 2009
443
1
Congrats Jerry. Best of luck with the shipping, duties, etc. :D

As for buying a Brompton second-hand: there's tons of them every week on eBay and GumTree...quite a few stolen examples too (often the cheapest of the lot, with no receipts, dodgy history given by the seller). I would say: do the community a favor and buy a B from a honest owner :) Old frames are still under warranty (10 years), newer ones only have a 5-year warranty (but are supposedly stronger). The old frame has a longer wheel base, the aluminium handle bar is made of a weaker compound, etc. You should register at the BromptonTalk@Yahoo.com group, as you would be able to get plenty of advice from there. ;)

Cheers, Dan
I'd have thought there would be relatively few stolen Bromptons around because people would generally carry them around with them rather than leave them locked at the station - but thanks for the advice, I'll be careful. I'm not looking so seriously yet but was just getting a bit jealous and carried along by all this Brompton talk!
 

Pedalo

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 10, 2009
443
1
Thanks for the comments.



I am hoping finally today to hear that the Cycle To Work scheme payment has paid the shop and they will post it out to me.

If you work and your company can reclaim the VAT I would strongly recommend this route.

Regards

Jerry
My company doesn't do this yet but there is talk they will from next April. I may well wait and go down this route.
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
Looking at the German Pedelec forum both their and my order are going through.
at the same time.

Its probably gonna be 2 or 3 weeks till I receive anything though.

In the meantime my battery parts are beginning to arrive so I can get on and build my 6s A123 packs :p

I will start a new post on the project soon.

PS Sorry about all the Brompton talk but half the fun of all this is posting on the forum :p

Regards

Jerry
 

emissions-free

Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2009
176
0
Shanghai
So even going direct it's still not so cheap, plus need a wheel build. So what would you consider to be a good price, retail in the UK for that kit in a rim? What do you get, a motor, controller, PAS sensor, brake levers? Just out of interest :)

There are other motors out there that are just as small and light (108mm spoke radius and 2.05kg) as a Tongxin. They're pretty powerful too and can take a bit of overvolts.
 

daniel.weck

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 8, 2009
1,229
2
To be honest, a pre-built wheel adds shipping bulk and weight, and I bet that the quality is mediocre (truing, dishing and tensioning). I'd rather pay a local bike shop or lace the hub into the rim myself (like I did).

As for the Tongxin versus other brush-less, sensor-less motors: apart from the FWF manufactured by Weifeng Machinery (see link below), what are the other choices of roller-based motors ?? Planetary/orbital gears are great (I use the latest Bafang and it's a fantastic unit IMO), but it's noisier, draggier and heavier than a Tongxin or equivalent.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/4753-tongxin-hub-motor-clone.html#post60206
 

emissions-free

Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2009
176
0
Shanghai
Attached is a very small pic of some Ananda motors that I've been testing. They are a geared hub motor. The smaller of the 2 has a motor that is approximately 85mm wide and can accept a disk brake. The wider motor pretty much fills standard 100mm dropout. They are both rated at 250W and come in speed range of about 190-290 rpm, 24V and 36V. Overvolting a high speed 24V motor should get you to over 400rpm.

I've had these apart and they are very nicely built. I had a 24V 85mm motor in my bike today and it will pull me along without pedalling at 36kph, running off of a 36V 6Ah lifepo4 pack. The motor weighs 2.05kg. The pack weighs 2.75kg, plus 0.75kg for pack mounting bracket. The controller I'm using with this is a bit overkill, I'll try it with some little mini controllers I have, which are fine at normal voltage but might current limit at higher voltages. So all up a total weight of about 5kgs if you ditched the rather heavy mounting bracket and with a reasonabl range. The wider motor weighs in at 2.3kg and has slighly different internal gears and design. I've used that same pack on a 500W at 36V motor and although there is a bit of voltage sag it hasn't missed a beat. The cells are rated 5C continuous, 8C max. BMS is 20A continuous an 40A max, I believe. This setup is not expensive either ;)

The narrower 85mm motor could be modified for about 90mm dropout and maybe as small as 85mm.

Regarding whether the wheel is sent in a rim or not. It doesn't make much difference with sea freight, but yes could add cost for airfreight. I'd say that yes in alot of cases they might not be built to the highest standard, but they can be. Personally the thing I found with building motors into rims is that getting hold of the correct length spokes is a right PITA. I quite like building rims now. It gets easier every time :)
 

Attachments

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
So even going direct it's still not so cheap, plus need a wheel build. So what would you consider to be a good price, retail in the UK for that kit in a rim? What do you get, a motor, controller, PAS sensor, brake levers? Just out of interest :)

There are other motors out there that are just as small and light (108mm spoke radius and 2.05kg) as a Tongxin. They're pretty powerful too and can take a bit of overvolts.
Well I have been quoted a wheel build of £50 so at £200 that is a lot cheaper than £430 + £15 delivery from the cheapest/only UK supplier. That is if they ever have any in stock!

If you know of other motors that suit the Brompton wheel application that are as quiet apart from maybe the FWF or Bafang (not quiet) as Dan says, then perhaps you could put up some details here ?

I would say a total kit price of around £300 (in a wheel) but then if you sell that from China what warranty would be provided ?

In the end the route I have taken is a gamble but effectively getting two for one gives me some fall back and anyway at this point none of the only kit suppliers has one to sell me.

PS The Brompton fork spacing is about 75mm.


Regards

Jerry
 
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emissions-free

Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2009
176
0
Shanghai
I'm talking about UK supplied from UK VAT registered company, bought from China and shipped to UK, distributed from London. With full support and warranty as per any reputable supplier.

The Ananda motor is not silent but it is pretty quiet. I haven't checked them back to back but the 85mm seems quieter than the 100mm and uses some rather special helical gear arrangement that has a ratio of about 9:1. The latest Bafang motors are very very quiet but they're not as light as these anandas. I'm not sure which Bafang you're referring to, have you tried the QSWXK which has the cable exiting from the side plate, rather than through a hollow axle?

I'll try and get some of these Tongxins for my own testing anyway. I looked on the website and couldn't see anything smaller than 100mm dropout. What is the dropout on the Brompton and what do you reckon could be squeezed in there without going to town on it?

Is that £430GBP without battery :eek: Does £50 include the parts or just labour?
 
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daniel.weck

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 8, 2009
1,229
2
I'm talking about UK supplied from UK VAT registered company, bought from China and shipped to UK, distributed from London. With full support and warranty as per any reputable supplier.
Is that the service you are offering ?

I'm not sure which Bafang you're referring to, have you tried the QSWXK which has the cable exiting from the side plate, rather than through a hollow axle?
That's the one I'm using, incidentally that's also the motor used in the Brompton Sparticle kit from the Electric Transport Shop.

I looked on the website and couldn't see anything smaller than 100mm dropout. What is the dropout on the Brompton and what do you reckon could be squeezed in there without going to town on it?
The Tongxin 80mm makes fitting easier, but the 75mm fork on a Brompton still needs to be widen (both the Electric Wheel Company/Nano and Freedom E-Bikes provide this service, at a cost of course).
 

daniel.weck

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 8, 2009
1,229
2

Pedalo

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 10, 2009
443
1
So even going direct it's still not so cheap, plus need a wheel build. So what would you consider to be a good price, retail in the UK for that kit in a rim? What do you get, a motor, controller, PAS sensor, brake levers? Just out of interest :)

There are other motors out there that are just as small and light (108mm spoke radius and 2.05kg) as a Tongxin. They're pretty powerful too and can take a bit of overvolts.
AlienOcean supply complete kits including 10Ah battery for £400-£450.
They are located in the U.K. and from what I read offer good support.
This kit includes all you need including wheel build, battery/controller mounting rack, charger, throttle controls etc. This kit is mainly aimed at 26 inch or 700 wheels. They are just starting to offer the new quieter Bafang motor. I think it's good value. If you could offer similar price point (or less for smaller battery options) for Tongxins and similar motors I'm sure it would be popular.
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
Is that £430GBP without battery :eek: Does £50 include the parts or just labour?
Yep sure is :rolleyes:

I think thats just labout yes but I am going to have a go at building it myself :p

I am sure if you can provide a working alternative at around £200-£300 (exc Battery or a lighter one as other suggest for a bit more) built in a wheel with controller, accessories distributed and warrantied from the UK Brompton owners would bite your hand off for them.

I think the main problem is that because of the DIY nature of kits and the supposedly 30% returns because of misfitting etc suppliers don't want to risk it.

As Dan said Sparticle produce a 24V Bafang solution ready fitted in forks for £750 incl battery but then charge another £80 to fit it in a wheel as well!

Electric Bike Sales - Shop Online for Electric Bikes, Electric Vehicles and Cycle Accessories - Brompton Sparticle

I have to apologise as I have now hijacked this thread and focussed it in on a Brompton solution, which has a special requirement if you want to use the same 75mm spaced forks.

I think for 100mm spaced forks the options are wider.

The Tongxin motor is not listed specifically on their web site but is a special 80mm wide unit model number Tongxin motor TXM-F80.

Ps Dan yes my first thought when I saw that motor was of the CUTE one sold on ebay.

Regards

Jerry
 
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emissions-free

Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2009
176
0
Shanghai
Thanks guys for all the comments. I agree that Alien Ocean offer good value. I don't think it's good to talk specifics here and now but your welcome to drop me PM and we can talk some more.

I think the Ananda motor could be brought down to 90mm, but less than that would be tricky. Will have to look into it some more and maybe see if I can get 1 machined down. The other posibility would be to get a fork manufactured?? If anyone is interested in helping to develop something or a bit of beta testing, get in touch, I don't bite and it's free :)

I'd better get some sleep, almost 1 here and got to be up at 6.30 to ride my e bike across Shanghai with the setup mentioned previously.