Best legal eapc hill climber

[hoppy]

An ME sufferer has asked advice on eapcs with throttle.He has been offered Freego, Wisper, Woosh and Juicy so far. Which will go up the steepest hill without pedalling, and what gradient with say a 75kg rider?

 

[trex]

I think that would be the woosh Krieger:

Crank driven, 8-speed, 13AH or 15AH battery.

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?krieger

 

[RobF]

Isn't a legal bike that goes up a hill without pedalling a non-sequitur?

 

[hoppy]

I think that would be the woosh Krieger:

Crank driven, 8-speed, 13AH or 15AH battery.

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?krieger

I think that would be the woosh Krieger:

Crank driven, 8-speed, 13AH or 15AH battery.

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?krieger

Thanks,trex. So what gradient can it climb on throttle only with 75 kg rider?

 

[hoppy]

Isn't a legal bike that goes up a hill without pedalling a non-sequitur?

Isn't a legal bike that goes up a hill without pedalling a non-sequitur?

Isn't a legal bike that goes up a hill without pedalling a non-sequitur?

No, all these supply a throttle to plug in after purchase, which keeps the bike a legal eapc.

 

[RobF]

A full throttle is either legal for use or it isn't - it matters not who fits it.

Not the most serious offence in the criminal canon, but to avoid unwanted attention it might be best to turn the pedals while using it.

 

[hoppy]

A full throttle is either legal for use or it isn't - it matters not who fits it.

Not the most serious offence in the criminal canon, but to avoid unwanted attention it might be best to turn the pedals while using it.

It IS legal for use.
The bike needs type approval if sold new with a full throttle useable.

 

[trex]

A full throttle is either legal for use or it isn't - it matters not who fits it.

we debated the throttle a long time.

The DfT is quite clear on the following:

point #1: throttle is legal on converted bikes and kits (no matter who fits it).
point #2: users will not be prosecuted for having a throttle (no matter which bike).

Both points are applicable also any new bike, as long as the bike has been put into use, ie on the road.

These two points are only valid in the UK.

 

[RobF]

It IS legal for use.
The bike needs type approval if sold new with a full throttle useable.

That's a very convenient - for you - reading of the legislation.

Another is the bike isn't type approved for a full throttle, so if it has one it's an illegal modification.

we debated the throttle a long time.

The DfT is quite clear on the following:

point #2: users will not be prosecuted for having a throttle.

Sounds OK-ish, but presumably the DfT is saying 'you could be prosecuted but we've no intention of doing so'.

I wouldn't rely on that, although the penalty for simple use won't be great.

Things could get a bit sticky if you injure someone while barrelling along on full throttle and that person is of a litigious nature.

 

[trex]

Thanks,trex. So what gradient can it climb on throttle only with 75 kg rider?

I reckon about 14%

 

[hoppy]

I reckon about 14%

I reckon about 14%

That's great! Thanks.

 

[trex]

That's a very convenient - for you - reading of the legislation.

Another is the bike isn't type approved for a full throttle, so if it has one it's an illegal modification.



Sounds OK-ish, but presumably the DfT is saying 'you could be prosecuted but we've no intention of doing so'.

I wouldn't rely on that, although the penalty for simple use won't be great.

Things could get a bit sticky if you injure someone while barrelling along on full throttle and that person is of a litigious nature.

the DfT is quite clear on that. Users will not be prosecuted for using a twist and go throttle (or any other throttle).
One can see that when the user plugs in a full throttle onto his shop bought, his situation is similar to someone converting a shop bought bike.

 

[Artstu]

An ME sufferer has asked advice on eapcs with throttle.He has been offered Freego, Wisper, Woosh and Juicy so far. Which will go up the steepest hill without pedalling, and what gradient with say a 75kg rider?

Why don't they want to pedal up the hills? Is the intention to use the bike on throttle alone?

 

[trex]

they do want to pedal, that's what the bike is for. The throttle is there as a backup, just in case they run out of energy. I met ME sufferrers. Sometimes they feel like they don't have the energy to lift a spoon.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

For a 75kg rider and 25 kg bike, a crank drive motor can manage a 14% hill with 36v and 15 amps, as long as the gearing is sensible. That would be OK for short hills, but things will overheat if you max out like that for too long.

The steepness that the motor can climb is directly proportional to the current. Bosch, Yamaha and Brose systems go up to about 20 amps, depending on which model. They only refer to meaningless torque, but you can probably draw a relationship between their torque figure and current.

Trex can tell you the Woosh current. Last I heard, they were going to 20A.

Although I haven't specifically tested the climbing ability of the Bafang Max Drive, I've heard that it has more power than Bosch, so probably up to 20A as well.

 

[Geebee]

they do want to pedal, that's what the bike is for. The throttle is there as a backup, just in case they run out of energy. I met ME sufferrers. Sometimes they feel like they don't have the energy to lift a spoon.

Yes they want to ride and pedal still but in many cases without a motor they would not be able to even pedal a 100m without breathing issues and if they persisted for a a bit longer distance could end up house bound for weeks.
An ebike allows one to use the amount of power that you can afford and get exercise within their limits plus does wonders for your mental health.

One correction trex it is not that they feel they can't but often they can't full stop due to physical reactions, or if they can do it they will end up doing nothing for weeks to recover.

If a crank drive is geared correctly even a legal one can climb steep hills continuously, unfortunately most 26" wheeled crank drive ebikes are severely over geared.

 

[Kudoscycles]

My Kudos Tornado and Arriba is pretty much considered the best hill climber with the high torque BPM motor but it will not go up a steep hill without pedalling,that is not possible with a legal e-bike.
We built an illegal 500 watt v 48v motor,that will just make it up steep hills on the throttle alone,but it eats batteries so the range is not good,it was tested only on private land.
A throttle does not increase the power over a speed sensor so does not aid hill climbing.
Apologies for being negative but you might as well know the truth.KudosDave

 

[Geebee]

,that is not possible with a legal e-bike

Can you explain why my legal BBS01 can climb extremely steep hills without rider power input?
In my case it is required to pedal to energise the motor so you can just spin with zero load once under way, as I am in Australia I have removed the throttle but it appears that is not required if a throttle is retro fitted in England.

Yes technically I am pedalling but I can pedal at 2 rpm and zero load up a steep hill with minor heat build up on the motor.

I have ridden an Ezee hub which I understand is similar climbing wise to the BPM and without assistance won't climb as steep a hill as either of my legal crank drives, both with low gearing.
The second bike is a Tonaro Esprit with an 8 speed geared hub. it has an oversized rear sprocket and the factory standard one up front, the speed controller is rated at 15 amps so it is lower powered than the 250W version!

Edit: gearing is everything with a crank drive on steep hills, as long as you are happy climbing steep hills at low speeds just make sure the lowest gear allows the motor to spin at high speed whilst doing so and heat will not be an issue.

 

[Artstu]

they do want to pedal, that's what the bike is for. The throttle is there as a backup, just in case they run out of energy. I met ME sufferrers. Sometimes they feel like they don't have the energy to lift a spoon.

With respect you're answering a question about someone you haven't met, so your generalization is invalid.

and as Geebee says it isn't a case of feeling like they don't have the energy, they don't have the energy full stop. I should know having had the wretched disease for over ten years.

 

[Artstu]

artstu, I demoed the woosh bikes to a few over the years.

I'm not doubting you have, I imagine you've also seen a lot of variability in the people you've seen too?
It could well be that this person doesn't feel able to pedal, so please let hoppy answer my question.