Best bike for....

[Kudoscycles]

Unfortunately the thread 'best bike for hill climbing,Kalkhoff alternative ' Is now closed to further postings,which is a shame because the OP must have felt very confused after all the spear throwing.
The OP wanted a bike for his wife,with a throttle,she suffers from tired legs....the obvious choice is a hub drive,with low speed-high torque motor using a simple speed (rotational) sensor,that would be any suitable bike with a Bafang BPM motor or its clones.
The problem with this forum is that a relative newbie to the e-bike world can think that because the super wizz,super expensive Bosch or Yamaha crank drive bikes happens to suit them,then it must also suit others,which is clearly not the case.
My Kudos Arriba is available with speed or torque sensor,quite frankly when this batch is exhausted I will not make any more torque sensor bikes,the speed outsells the torque 20:1. Customers approach at shows and there local super expensive bike shop has recommended a crank drive bike,that is usually because that's what they have in stock and that makes the most profit. But on explaining to the customer that a torque sensor bike requires you to put effort in,to get power out....if your legs are tired you still have to exert pressure on the pedals,not many understand that. Whereas a speed sensor will give you the max power available irrespective of how much effort you put into the pedals.
The torque sensor bike has to be ridden like a normal bike,to get the best out of the bike you have to ensure that the bike is pretty much ridden in the correct gear,whereas the hub bike with wide torque spread allows some flexibility on gear selection,many I would say most prefer the latter.
D8veh and I have ridden dozens of bikes in all configurations,the knowledge that D8veh has built up is invaluable to forum members and newbies find his clear explanations a breath of fresh air amongst all the bullshit pushed out by some who think they know it all but actually their knowledge is dangerously limited to one bike type.
The 'experts' who recommended a crank drive,torque sensor bike to a lady with tired legs should apologise to the OP,she may have gone out to buy a bike on that bad advice,it would have proven totally unsuitable.
Back from China with 10 new bikes in build,all simple hub drive/speed sensor...
KudosDave

 

[Gringo]

Well said mr Dave sir.
I read a lot more on here than I post for that very reason.
I know what suits me but it doesn't follow that I know what's best for everyone else.
It's the physically fit that haven't experienced the soul destroying pain that accompanies some conditions, that some times have the strongest opinions.
I've got bad knees but persevere with my bosh-cube because the effort & movement involved keeps the mussels around my knees tight/toned.
The less I cycle, the more painfully my knees become and that reduces how much I can walk. It's a long slippery slope, at the moment I'm near the top and I want to stay there as long as possible.

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

I,ve got bad knees, infact a steel one in right..
I have no problems at all pedalling the Haibike. The problem wasn't the advice is was the fact your mate , chief advertiser, told a poster he was talking bolux, when actually he wasn't , and even if he was d8veh has no right to tell anybody so.
But well done , resurrecting a closed thread, misquoting what folk actually said and generally being an ******* .

Nobody recommended anything. Folk on the Bosch cd drive side of argument said try one.

As it was pointed out in the closed thread a speed sensor needs a level of torque to initiate it. The question is how sensitive the torque sensor is. Yours is obviously crap and needs loads of torque to activate it . Mine senses very low levels of torque, infact akin to a speed sensor.
Most companies pay for their advertising, seems you come on here backed up by d8veh and get yours for free .

Mods
Please close this thread . A fool has restarted a closed argument, a few more have taken bait and replied.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Yours is obviously crap and needs loads of torque to activate it . Mine senses very low levels of torque, infact akin to a speed sensor.

That just goes to show how little you know about how ebikes work, and would confirm my suspicions that you have tried very few electric bikes because anybody who had tried such bikes would know that's not true.

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

So you are saying you can trigger any speed sensor with no torque ?

No you can,t If the torque sensor was sensitive enough it would merely behave as a " movement" sensor.
Seems the argument has drifted ..

The question as to the suitability of Torque sensor/ speed sensor is not one is suitable, the other isn't. Its the triggering pressure required for either. Yes its naturally low on speed sensor but to rule out all torque sensors because the ones you have tried require high torque to trigger is doing exactly what you accused me of doing .
On my Yam the motor is activated with very very low torque.( the fact is it has to be like that ob a bike offered with capability of such low gearing, as you are well aware the torque sensor needs an opposing torque to switch,in extremely low gears that opposing torque is very low.

But thanks for improved attitude in response . It is noticed.

Still think you owe other poster an apology.

And there should be automatic ban for resurecting a closed thread. It makes mods job futile. We,ve been through all this before..can only go down hill.

Comment you,ve quoted was obviuisly not meant literally. A torque sensor set low enough (ie enough to move pedals when freewheeling) could work as " movement sensor" Its pedantics again.

But by the way
I perfectly understand a speed sensor could give all available power, whereas torque sensor would give a proportion ( or factor) of it..
But like I said earlier I certainly didn't say go out and buy a Haibike ( don't think anyone did) I said try one.
And yet again you and your cronies up in arms because a poster offers their opinion.

I do wonder your connection with all these traders ??

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Rather than spouting all your theories, go and try one, then you'll know how it works.

 

[D8ve]

Please no more. It's back to argument. D8veh is highly knowledgable and has helped so many so freely. If he makes any small errors I forgive him. Stop this and let it lie.

 

[LeighPing]

Please no more. It's back to argument. D8veh is highly knowledgable and has helped so many so freely. If he makes any small errors I forgive him. Stop this and let it lie.

I see it as a robust debate, rather than an argument myself. I learnt a lot from the last 'discussion' thread, the one that got locked off.

It's only ebiking experience surfacing with passion.

I hope that this one doesn't end up getting locked off. Lots of good info comes out from such exchanges. Especially for noobs like me who only have limited experience of such things. It's a great forum and a good learning curve for many of us reading such threads.

 

[trex]

flud is a bit argumentative though. We can keep splitting hair but reality is there is little difference in ability between a Bosch CX bike and a BPM hub bike. When you factor in the rider's own physical ability, the latter wipes out the motors' differences, so it's down to the riders' choice really.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

This could all be solved very easily... by the correct answer being given to the question.

If some one asks .. What is the best bike for?

The answer is: No one knows, its impossible to answer here! Go an try some and find the best bike for you and your needs. This can be down to best local support, best price, best colour, best set up and a host of other personal 'bests', long before you even start considering the motor.

People trying to recommend anything on the internet is pointless.

Especially when so much of what is written on here is what people want to be true, when in many cases its simply not true.

But yes, we all love a good debate... so crack on

 

[Kudoscycles]

I,ve got bad knees, infact a steel one in right..
I have no problems at all pedalling the Haibike. The problem wasn't the advice is was the fact your mate , chief advertiser, told a poster he was talking bolux, when actually he wasn't , and even if he was d8veh has no right to tell anybody so.
But well done , resurrecting a closed thread, misquoting what folk actually said and generally being an ******* .

Nobody recommended anything. Folk on the Bosch cd drive side of argument said try one.

As it was pointed out in the closed thread a speed sensor needs a level of torque to initiate it. The question is how sensitive the torque sensor is. Yours is obviously crap and needs loads of torque to activate it . Mine senses very low levels of torque, infact akin to a speed sensor.
Most companies pay for their advertising, seems you come on here backed up by d8veh and get yours for free .

Mods
Please close this thread . A fool has restarted a closed argument, a few more have taken bait and replied.

I,ve got bad knees, infact a steel one in right..
I have no problems at all pedalling the Haibike. The problem wasn't the advice is was the fact your mate , chief advertiser, told a poster he was talking bolux, when actually he wasn't , and even if he was d8veh has no right to tell anybody so.
But well done , resurrecting a closed thread, misquoting what folk actually said and generally being an ******* .

Nobody recommended anything. Folk on the Bosch cd drive side of argument said try one.

As it was pointed out in the closed thread a speed sensor needs a level of torque to initiate it. The question is how sensitive the torque sensor is. Yours is obviously crap and needs loads of torque to activate it . Mine senses very low levels of torque, infact akin to a speed sensor.
Most companies pay for their advertising, seems you come on here backed up by d8veh and get yours for free .

Mods
Please close this thread . A fool has restarted a closed argument, a few more have taken bait and replied.

Actually he was talking rubbish.
Have you actually ridden any other bikes than the Haibike?
The torque sensor fitted to the Arriba was the German Thun RT model,generally considered one of the best units around,there was nothing wrong with the operation of the sensor just it doesn't seem to suit a lot of people.
I do pay to be a trade contributor to this forum,I contribute to the discussions partly for promotional purposes but mostly from a general interest in the development of e-bikes.
I have been called a lot in my life,some not particularly complimentary terms but never a fool.
Why was the last thread closed it seemed to be a useful medium to clear up a number of misconceptions,maybe some just couldn't compete with the knowledge of long term Pedelec contributors.
Off to prepare for a kit car show at Stoneleigh,there are some parallels between the kit car industry and the e-bike industry,both niche products trying to survive in a market,over burdened by government intervention,would Brexit make a difference?
KudosDave

 

[trex]

If some one asks .. What is the best bike for?

The answer is: No one knows, its impossible to answer here!

no one knows the answer to 'best' but the forum can answer to 'better'.

and in many cases, the choices are pretty limited. If you can't look after the bike yourself, then you need to find someone who can do this for you or choose a model that is available locally.
Assuming that you or a friend can look after the bike then potentially, you can save a fair amount by asking questions here.

@kudosdave: would Brexit make a difference?
yes, it would. The Pound will be weaker against the Dollar, boosting your net profit slightly because you can up your prices proportionally to the exchange rate, your competitors will have to up theirs to the same, and your anciliary costs are in Pound.

 

[Kudoscycles]

So you are saying you can trigger any speed sensor with no torque ?

No you can,t If the torque sensor was sensitive enough it would merely behave as a " movement" sensor.
Seems the argument has drifted ..

The question as to the suitability of Torque sensor/ speed sensor is not one is suitable, the other isn't. Its the triggering pressure required for either. Yes its naturally low on speed sensor but to rule out all torque sensors because the ones you have tried require high torque to trigger is doing exactly what you accused me of doing .
On my Yam the motor is activated with very very low torque.( the fact is it has to be like that ob a bike offered with capability of such low gearing, as you are well aware the torque sensor needs an opposing torque to switch,in extremely low gears that opposing torque is very low.

But thanks for improved attitude in response . It is noticed.

Still think you owe other poster an apology.

And there should be automatic ban for resurecting a closed thread. It makes mods job futile. We,ve been through all this before..can only go down hill.

Comment you,ve quoted was obviuisly not meant literally. A torque sensor set low enough (ie enough to move pedals when freewheeling) could work as " movement sensor" Its pedantics again.

But by the way
I perfectly understand a speed sensor could give all available power, whereas torque sensor would give a proportion ( or factor) of it..
But like I said earlier I certainly didn't say go out and buy a Haibike ( don't think anyone did) I said try one.
And yet again you and your cronies up in arms because a poster offers their opinion.

I do wonder your connection with all these traders ??

Quote 'I do wonder your connection with all these traders' .....D8veh and Flecc have remained completely impartial when it comes to their recommendations and opinions,Neither of them is at all commercially motivated despite ,I am sure ,lots of opportunities to gain by promoting a particular brand or product.
D8veh's knowledge,especially Lithium batteries,has proven so helpful to forum members and sometimes I seek his advice,I emphasise to no commercial gain to himself....he is just a very helpful and nice guy.
Perhaps sir,it is you who should apologise for suggesting that D8veh has any commercial connections with us traders,when clearly you have no evidence to substantiate such a statement,even worded by way of a question.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

no one knows the answer to 'best' but the forum can answer to 'better'.

and in many cases, the choices are pretty limited. If you can't look after the bike yourself, then you need to find someone who can do this for you or choose a model that is available locally.
Assuming that you or a friend can look after the bike then potentially, you can save a fair amount by asking questions here.

@kudosdave: would Brexit make a difference?
yes, it would. The Pound will be weaker against the Dollar, boosting your net profit slightly because you can up your prices proportionally to the exchange rate, your competitors will have to up theirs to the same, and your anciliary costs are in Pound.

Trees,but these currency changes are 'swings and roundabouts' The weak pound has made my purchases more expensive against the US dollar.
But the weaker Pound versus the Euro has made my goods into Europe more attractive.
When I was referring to Brexit I was really wondering whether it would reduce the red tape out of Brussels?
KudosDave

 

[trex]

But the weak Euro has made my goods into Europe more attractive.
KudosDave

you meant surely to say the strong Euro has made your goods more attractive to EU customers. If you sell to EU customers then you still need EC labelling, Brexit will make it worse if anything. Assuming we use GATT or one of the available schemes to start with before having our own, you will have to stop using ebay and Amazon, stop charging VAT, meaning your cashflow slightly worse off, your EU customers will need to pay VAT, duty and Customs declaration charge (£10), each invoice will need 5 additional paper copies, the French will insist that you include paper copy of EU certifications with each shipment before they clear Customs, some of them may stop buying from you. Gone the day you can just apply online for a Belgian VAT account or to have a warehouse in Antwerp without having to set up a local company, pay local insurance etc. If we have our own deal with China and the EU, you can find yourself in a worse situation, paying for duty to import from China and your EU customers pay duty on your goods. The total may exceed what your EU competitors pay to import directly from China. Whichever way you look at it, Brexit will add cost to your business.

 

[RobF]

Yet again, Kudos Dave proves himself to be one of the naughtiest boys in the class.

Stay behind after school and write 200 times: "I must not start threads with the sole purpose of causing an argument."

 

[Kudoscycles]

you meant surely to say the strong Euro has made your goods more attractive to EU customers. If you sell to EU customers then you still need EC labelling, Brexit will make it worse if anything. Assuming we use GATT or one of the available schemes to start with before having our own, you will have to stop using ebay and Amazon, stop charging VAT, meaning your cashflow slightly worse off, your EU customers will need to pay VAT, duty and Customs declaration charge (£10), each invoice will need 5 additional paper copies, the French will insist that you include paper copy of EU certifications with each shipment before they clear Customs, some of them may stop buying from you. Gone the day you can just apply online for a Belgian VAT account or to have a warehouse in Antwerp without having to set up a local company, pay local insurance etc. If we have our own deal with China and the EU, you can find yourself in a worse situation, paying for duty to import from China and your EU customers pay duty on your goods. The total may exceed what your EU competitors pay to import directly from China. Whichever way you look at it, Brexit will add cost to your business.

Trex....you are right of course,a bit of typo got missed,have corrected the error. People keep asking me which way I am going to vote,thinking that with all my export business I must have an informed view....the honest answer I haven't a clue,my heart says Brexit because of all the one sided red tape and costs the EU creates,my head says that life is very good at the moment,why jump into the unknown.
It's a dangerous game we play and not sure how necessary,Cameron must regret the day he said about the in-out referendum,I don't think he thought there was any chance we would vote to leave.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Yet again, Kudos Dave proves himself to be one of the naughtiest boys in the class.

Stay behind after school and write 200 times: "I must not start threads with the sole purpose of causing an argument."

'Some may think it,I couldn't possibly comment'

 

[RobF]

'Some may think it,I couldn't possibly comment'

It would be a very dull forum if we were all the same, so more power to your (sometimes mischievous) elbow.

You've also supplied lots of members with bikes they are very happy with, and you spend a lot of time and money on developing the product - not easy for a relatively small business.

Much as I like my Bosch bikes, for the last few autumns I've seriously thought about a Kudos hub mountain bike for winter use.

 

[trex]

It's a dangerous game we play and not sure how necessary.
KudosDave

I think it's necessary because about 60% of middle England won't rest until it's tested by a referendum and even if the referendum decides we stay, they still won't rest. It's just heart over mind. The only way they'll relent is after Brexit, the economy worsens to such a point.
It's also the best time to do it, the polls showed about 60 in 40 out when they announced the date. It's now 53 in, 47 out, the margin may narrow still further. It will come down to the weather. The Brexiters will go out to vote whatever the weather, the Bremainers may be a bit too lazy if it's rainy.