Belt or chain, derailleur or hub?

Stubod

Pedelecer
Feb 26, 2020
44
26
Hi all, newbie to forum so please be gentle.

I am currently looking to get back into cycling and get myself an e-bike. I have been looking at TREK as I understand they use Bosch Active line motors which seems to be the hardware of choice in this price range(?).

However I also note that some models now come with a belt rather than chain drive so will obviously only operate with hub gears. This is something that was not originally on my radar, but this combination would seem to offer a cleaner and a more reliable "maintenance free" system?

I am looking to spend about £2 - £2.5k and doing some "gentle" trips of probably no more than 30 / 40 miles range. Just wondering if any experts out there would be able to offer any opinions regarding the benefits or otherwise of going "belt & hub", or if I should be looking at any other bikes?

...many thanks for any replies.
 
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Poolepete

Pedelecer
Aug 14, 2018
94
93
55
Poole
Hi all, and many thanks for all the replies and useful information.

I think I have decided to go for a Raleigh Motus Grand Tour.
OK it has got a derailleur and chain, but I have taken on board some of the above comments regarding simpler maintenance if something goes wrong.

Again thanks for all the comments..
I hope you have as much fun and use with yours as I do with mine!
 
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Stubod

Pedelecer
Feb 26, 2020
44
26
I was all set to push the button and get a bike and the world stopped turning..!

I am still hoping to pick up an e-bike when this is all over and I have been passing some of the time doing a bit more research. I have come to the conclusion that the best compromise for me is a Nexus (hub) gear with a conventional chain as I think this gives the best compromise.

Ironically the spec I wanted was the Raleigh GT Motus with the "lower" crossbar frame and Nexus hub....and for some reason they do the standard crossbar with Nexus, and also the low step, but not the lower crossbar?....it's not a deal breaker and I look forward to the planet returning to something like normal!..stay safe all!

..and at least we can continue to cycle, at least for the mo. (and the roads are really quiet!)
 
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Ocsid

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 2, 2017
453
271
81
Hampshire
As an observation, I point out the earlier posts showing belt failures, do not feature the "Gates" carbon belt, with central tracking, most commonly encountered in quality e-bikes. So I suggest does not necessarily reflect any failing inherent in specifically that Gates design and their manufacturing quality.

In our experience, now three years on, our choice of a bike with the "Gates" belt has proved to be excellent. Being an engineer, its ability to bring a trace of compliance to the drive line can only be an asset to the internals of both the CD and the hub gear, the more so in an e-bike and with a hub gear.

My research on 7 or 8 speed Nexus hubs, suggests the latter to be the more robust of the two, thus better suited to an e-bike.
I understood it featured roller clutches as opposed to the 7's pawls, very much what would be my preference.
I would add the bike, now that 3 years in has been excellent, but its has never been more arduously treated than what I would call, light hybrid use albeit in hilly areas, the bike type it replaced.
 
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Ippy

Finding my (electric) wheels
Apr 9, 2020
6
2
As an observation, I point out the earlier posts showing belt failures, do not feature the "Gates" carbon belt, with central tracking, most commonly encountered in quality e-bikes. So I suggest does not necessarily reflect any failing inherent in specifically that Gates design and their manufacturing quality.

In our experience, now three years on, our choice of a bike with the "Gates" belt has proved to be excellent. Being an engineer, its ability to bring a trace of compliance to the drive line can only be an asset to the internals of both the CD and the hub gear, the more so in an e-bike and with a hub gear.

My research on 7 or 8 speed Nexus hubs, suggests the latter to be the more robust of the two, thus better suited to an e-bike.
I understood it featured roller clutches as opposed to the 7's pawls, very much what would be my preference.
I would add the bike, now that 3 years in has been excellent, but its has never been more arduously treated than what I would call, light hybrid use albeit in hilly areas, the bike type it replaced.
Relating to your response (Ocsid) which bike do you have with Nexus 8 hub gears that you referred to in your reply ?
 

Ocsid

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 2, 2017
453
271
81
Hampshire
Relating to your response (Ocsid) which bike do you have with Nexus 8 hub gears that you referred to in your reply ?
It is a 2015 MY Kalkhoff Agattu Premium Impulse 8, in the small frame size, step through with the 26" wheel option, though purchased new as obsolete stock in early 2017.

Nearly identical to :
US version Agattu 8

The UK version has different front & rear light units, the Gates belt and, important to us, for inside an SUV transport it has a quick release front wheel.

(Despite featuring the Impulse 2 motor with that's poor reputation on here, we fortunately have had zero issues, possibly because the bike's usage has never been aggressive and the belt being kinder to the drive line? Need a fingers crossed smiley here!)
 
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Ippy

Finding my (electric) wheels
Apr 9, 2020
6
2
It is a 2015 MY Kalkhoff Agattu Premium Impulse 8, in the small frame size, step through with the 26" wheel option, though purchased new as obsolete stock in early 2017.

Nearly identical to :
US version Agattu 8

The UK version has different front & rear light units, the Gates belt and, important to us, for inside an SUV transport it has a quick release front wheel.

(Despite featuring the Impulse 2 motor with that's poor reputation on here, we fortunately have had zero issues, possibly because the bike's usage has never been aggressive and the belt being kinder to the drive line? Need a fingers crossed smiley here!)
Yes, I almost bought a ebike from a company last year that unfortunately folded because of the issues from the Kalkhoff, which left them in dire straits through all the warranty
It is a 2015 MY Kalkhoff Agattu Premium Impulse 8, in the small frame size, step through with the 26" wheel option, though purchased new as obsolete stock in early 2017.

Nearly identical to :
US version Agattu 8

The UK version has different front & rear light units, the Gates belt and, important to us, for inside an SUV transport it has a quick release front wheel.

(Despite featuring the Impulse 2 motor with that's poor reputation on here, we fortunately have had zero issues, possibly because the bike's usage has never been aggressive and the belt being kinder to the drive line? Need a fingers crossed smiley here!)
I almost bought a ebike from 50cycles in the UK who went into liquidation before i collected, this was due to all the warranty work they had on Kalkhoff motors. They are up and running again selling BH ebikes, but they seem virtually unknown in the UK.
I really like the idea of the gates drive and hub gears, but that combination puts them out of my price range at the moment around 2K.
Thanks for your reply.
 
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Stubod

Pedelecer
Feb 26, 2020
44
26
..I am now struggling to find the bike spec I really want....ie Bosch motor with chain drive nexus hub? For some reason Raleigh seemed to have stopped doing them / or never did them with the "lower" crossbar frame. Shame really a this seems like an ideal combination to me...I guess I will have to compromise on a derailleur gear, or see if any other manufacturers offer the spec. I want...
 

sjpt

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2018
3,853
2,764
Winchester
..I am now struggling to find the bike spec I really want....ie Bosch motor with chain drive nexus hub? For some reason Raleigh seemed to have stopped doing them / or never did them with the "lower" crossbar frame. Shame really a this seems like an ideal combination to me...I guess I will have to compromise on a derailleur gear, or see if any other manufacturers offer the spec. I want...
Odd looking in some ways, but might be what you want.
US site but they come up with quite a few UK distributors.

We've got an older Motus step-through with 7 speed hub. Certainly suits us; I'm not sure if the lower crossbar frame would be any lighter or stronger? There seem to be quite a few stepthrough/hub combinations, but as you say not many with low crossbar.
 
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Stubod

Pedelecer
Feb 26, 2020
44
26
Odd looking in some ways, but might be what you want.
US site but they come up with quite a few UK distributors.

We've got an older Motus step-through with 7 speed hub. Certainly suits us; I'm not sure if the lower crossbar frame would be any lighter or stronger? There seem to be quite a few stepthrough/hub combinations, but as you say not many with low crossbar.
..thanks, but that bike just looks a little "odd" to me. Was hoping to get something that looked fairly conventional...and apols to anybody that has got one...just not my cup of tea!
 

lisa-martin

Just Joined
Apr 10, 2020
3
0
I will go for a belt because they are cleaner since they don't use lubrication. They last forever with a 100,000 mile wear rating.
 

Ippy

Finding my (electric) wheels
Apr 9, 2020
6
2
I will go for a belt because they are cleaner since they don't use lubrication. They last forever with a 100,000 mile wear rating.
I see many posts reporting broken chains and bent or damaged chain rings, the derailleur was never designed for powerful hub motors.
 

Stubod

Pedelecer
Feb 26, 2020
44
26
I see many posts reporting broken chains and bent or damaged chain rings, the derailleur was never designed for powerful hub motors.
....must admit it what puts me off. My "manual" 21 speed derailleur suggests using front gear 1st with rear 123, middle ring front with 3,4,5 and 3rd front with 5,6,7 to limit "offset chain". However all crank motors only have one "front" gear and are expected to operate over the entire rear 7+ range!?.... or am I overthinking it?
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,461
16,921
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
I see many posts reporting broken chains and bent or damaged chain rings, the derailleur was never designed for powerful hub motors.
hub gears are even less designed for powerful middle motors.
that's the main reason why you only see Bosch ALP and not CX with hub gears.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,461
16,921
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
they only do hub gear bikes with Steps E6000 (50NM) and E6100 (60NM).
Both are low torque motors - even less than Bosch ALP.
 
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Ippy

Finding my (electric) wheels
Apr 9, 2020
6
2
they only do hub gear bikes with Steps E6000 (50NM) and E6100 (60NM).
Both are low torque motors - even less than Bosch ALP.
Yes, its a minefield out there. I’m after a commuter primarily for around the 2k mark and have sort of narrowed it down to a choice of 2, a Volt Infinity or a Cube touring Hybrid Pro 500 Trapeze. If I go for the Cube the dealer will deliver for a 30 day test drive and exchange up to 3 times, but I don’t know how flexible Volt are about returns.
The problem being I can‘t go round trying different bikes under the current restrictions.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,461
16,921
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
it's tricky to combine the requirements of a commuter (zero maintenance, keep to high speed to save time) with the pleasure of riding a lightweight crank drive bike, especially when you can't test ride them.
You may have to go for a low cost commuter to limit your exposure.
 

Stubod

Pedelecer
Feb 26, 2020
44
26
Yes, its a minefield out there. I’m after a commuter primarily for around the 2k mark and have sort of narrowed it down to a choice of 2, a Volt Infinity or a Cube touring Hybrid Pro 500 Trapeze. If I go for the Cube the dealer will deliver for a 30 day test drive and exchange up to 3 times, but I don’t know how flexible Volt are about returns.
The problem being I can‘t go round trying different bikes under the current restrictions.
..I looked at Volt as we have a main dealer a couple of miles away. But don't think they use Bosch motors?....some research suggests the Active Line is probably the best option in this price bracket at the mo?
 

Ocsid

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 2, 2017
453
271
81
Hampshire
I would hang in a bit longer to see how things unfold facilitating a test ride, of importantly several, they do feel different.