Belt or chain, derailleur or hub?

RobF · Feb 29, 2020

A suspension fork at this price point tends to add weight and very little else.

Most bikes you look at will have one because sales are driven by marketing, and inexperienced cyclist buyers assume a suspension fork must be better than a rigid.

Not worth worrying about either way - a suspension fork, while next to useless - won't do you any active harm other than some extra weight.

Poolepete · Feb 29, 2020

Just to throw a slight curve for your ponderings, and in deference to all the good advice by others above, I would throw in a vote for derailleuers. My bike has them and I would not hesitate to have them again. Maybe not quite so user friendly as hubs (you get used to changing gear before a junction rather than when you are stopped), but they are cheaper and generally give you a wider range of gears. My hesitation with hubs (the experience of friends) is that when they decide to die, they are a expensive to replace. I have had one major self inflicted problem with the derailleur...I managed to bump my D lock out of my rack bag that I had foolishly forgotten to zip closed. Fate ordained that it fell down the right hand side of my bike and bashed the derailleur through the spokes! Somehow the wheel and hanger survived, the derailleur was very poorly but I managed to straighten it enough for a further 15 miles riding before I replaced it (a quick 15-30 mins job and not very expensive, being a Shimano Deore). So here I am, showing the exact weakness of derailleur, but I would still choose another over hub.

Whatever you do, have a few good test rides and have a lot of fun with whatever you choose!

Woosh · Mar 1, 2020

Stubod said:
Hi and thanks for taking the time to reply. Most of the bikes I have been looking at in my price point don't seem to have sprung forks and I did wonder if they were more to do with "marketing" rather than any functional value. Most e-bikes seem to come with quite "fat" tyres anyway which I guess helps ride quality..

suspension forks are functional, even cheap ones.
They are valuable against road bumps, potholes etc, without them, it's near impossible to ride on many unmade tracks etc.

They don't cost much to add to the bike, about £50, but they add weight to a bike.

Popular shocks:
- Zoom monoshock: travel 30mm additional weight: 0.5kg
- Suntour NEX, travel 63mm additional weight: 2kgs, extremely popular.

RobF · Mar 1, 2020

Woosh said:
suspension forks are functional, even cheap ones.
They are valuable against road bumps, potholes etc, without them, it's near impossible to ride on many unmade tracks etc.

They don't cost much to add to the bike, about £50, but they add weight to a bike.

Popular shocks:
- Zoom monoshock: travel 30mm additional weight: 0.5kg
- Suntour NEX, travel 63mm additional weight: 2kgs, extremely popular.

You ought to try riding a bike with a good quality suspension corrected rigid fork.

You would then realise cheapo suspension forks are a waste of space on roads and well made paths.

Proper mountain biking is different, but even then a cheapo fork will perform no better than a rigid.

The fashion for podgier tyres on hybrids and MTBs has made this even truer than it ever was.

Woosh · Mar 1, 2020

RobF said:
You ought to try riding a bike with a good quality suspension corrected rigid fork.

Rob, I convert plenty of good bikes over the years so I have come across good forks from a variety of manufacturers, Suntour, RST, Rockshox, Fox, Manitou.

There is always a weight penalty with coil sprung forks, they weigh roughly about 1kg more than air forks, but they are perfectly good on cycle trails.
Unless you intend to race downhill or ride rocky trails, Suntour NEX forks will do very well for very little money. No wonder nearly 9 out of 10 e-bike manufacturers use them.

RobF · Mar 1, 2020

I'm not suggesting cheapo suspension forks do any harm.

But they don't provide any benefit over a rigid fork for the use 99.9 percent of hybrid ebikes are put to.

In more extreme use, what I would describe as proper mountain biking, a cheap fork also does not do the job.

So they really have no use at all, other than propping open the bike shed door.

Woosh · Mar 1, 2020

RobF said:
But they don't provide any benefit over a rigid fork for the use 99.9 percent of hybrid ebikes are put to.

people take their e-bikes to forestry trails, canal paths, disused rail tracks - their surface is invariably rutted. their use is much more than the 0.1% you think.
Why limit your rides to smooth surfaces?

RobF · Mar 1, 2020

#

Woosh said:
people take their e-bikes to forestry trails, canal paths, disused rail tracks - their surface is invariably rutted. their use is much more than the 0.1% you think.
Why limit your rides to smooth surfaces?

Those are the surfaces that a cheapo suspension fork is useless on.

Nealh · Mar 1, 2020

I have overcome using cheaper sprung forks on my 700c tone bike by using the wider comfortable Geoff bars along with nice GP2 bar ends, the change of hand position and the lighter front end makes for a better ride.

Woosh · Mar 1, 2020

RobF said:
#

Those are the surfaces that a cheapo suspension fork is useless on.

so companies like R&M, Scott, Raleigh fit useless Suntour NEX forks on their bikes?

Check a few of these out:
Riese Muller Swing 3 range, all have NEX forks

2020 Riese & Muller Swing 3 Urban

fudgescyclesonline.com

Scott Sub Tour E-Ride:

Scott Sub Tour E-Ride 10 2020 Bosch

The new Scott Sub Tour E-Ride 10 2020 Bosch powered electric bike is available today from the UK's premier Scott eBike dealer. Learn More..

www.e-bikeshop.co.uk

Raleigh has a dozen of bikes with the Suntour NEX:

Felix Crossbar | Raleigh UK

The Raleigh Felix is a versatile hybrid electric bike fully equipped with Bosch technology which is perfect for commuting, touring and leisure rides.

www.raleigh.co.uk

That's just one cheap coil sprung fork, same or similar to the Suntour NEX I use on my bikes.
Virtually, every bike manufacturer has used coil sprung forks in their range.

They should have listened to your advice and stop fitting these useless lumps to their bikes immediately.

RobF · Mar 2, 2020

I've explained the marketing rationale behind fitting cheap suspension forks.

It's the ultimate victory of style over substance.

Not that I especially criticise companies for doing it, they are only responding to buyer preference and they need to sell bikes.

My Charger has a higher end Suntour fork, but it's still next to useless particularly as the bike runs balloon tyres.

Nosweat · Mar 2, 2020

Local bike shop recommended a bike with suspension (to be fair it was the only bike they had in the size needed) for my seven year old. Bless him it was as heavy as one of our adult bikes, nearly 14kg! After a short while of realising he was never going to get very far we got a much lighter framed child bike without suspension - 9kg and he loves it. For a child suspension seems designed to put them off cycling. When the additional weight as a proportion of the total weight is less of a penalty then comfort and functionality becomes a more important factor.

sjpt · Mar 2, 2020

My last non-electric bike had suspension. I don't think it added much to my then typical riding (5 mile each way commute mostly easy off road) except on one bumpy downhill section where it really helped me keep on track. The tandem doesn't have suspension and I don't miss it (but must get riser bars some time). The Motus solo does and I think it adds smoothness to the very weighty and sedate ride I now enjoy.

Woosh · Mar 2, 2020

RobF said:
My Charger has a higher end Suntour fork

Let's talk about forks for a bit.

your bike has Suntour XCR32 Air fork.
My bikes have Suntour NEX E25 coil spring fork.

Let's compare the two:

Suntour XCR32 Air fork: retail £122 weight: 2.36kgs
Suntour NEX E25: coil sprung fork: retail £70 weight: 2.56kgs

So your fork weighs 200g less than mine.

beside replacing the two coil springs by two air springs, what other high end components you have in your fork?

RobF · Mar 2, 2020

The fork on the Charger is a Suntour Aion.

Since I believe it's pointless on the bike it is fitted to, I'm not very interested in the spec.

But here's a review:

Suntour Aion Review | BIKE Magazine

Read our Suntour Aion review to find out about the fork designed to give riders near-top-level performance for half the price of some of the competition.

www.bikemag.com

Woosh · Mar 2, 2020

which Suntour Aion have you got? My guess it's SF18AION-DS-LO-R-15QLC32

The Aion has one leg with coil spring and the other with air spring.
It gives you a combination of the benefits of coil sprung forks (quicker to respond) and air sprung forks (progressive response).

Suntour Aion retails for £170, weight 2.16kgs

Poolepete · Mar 2, 2020

Good morning all. This thread has certainly derailed itself from the original topic. Would it not be worth setting up a separate thread regarding suspension? It is interesting hearing the views of you learned folk, but by having the discussion under a relevant thread title, it will make it easier for those interested in the future to find it?

Woosh · Mar 2, 2020

The OP's budget is £2k-£2.5k and his question is 'is suspension fork functional?'
My answer is a clear yes. Although I ride a bike with a rigid fork, I'd take another bike (full sus) if I were heading to Belfairs woods.
The only down side is the additional weight.

Belt or chain, derailleur or hub?

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