BEBA Survey

[Oxygen Bicycles]

Hi David,

Who is the stiff competition, or did you mean to write opposition?

Regards,

Guess David meant EU thats against throttles. I believe that we can fight the throttle ban under discrimination of disabled people which in fact for many with disability issues would mean taking them away from only sort of independent transport.

I remember I sold a bike to older man in Crystal Palace who has had a stroke before. This bike as his daughter described is the only way of him being independent and being able to get from his house to his daughter. He wasn't able to start riding without having a throttle and those who know Crystal Palace, yes Eddie - we know how hilly it is there. So if a UK throttle ban comes into force all people like my customer will became dependent on someone else, and that would be really sad.

Andrew

 

[Kudoscycles]

Andrew,good to hear from you.
I respect all the people who could not ride these ebikes without throttles,as i have said all my new models have a throttle included,easily disconnected. I too have many customers who would not have bought the bike without a throttle,I think it is probably 1 in 4 customers.
The point I am making is whilst the legislation may not specifically include throttles,as opposed to specifically banning them,we will be in exactly the same situation as current mainland Europe and I have no problem selling bikes into Europe with throttles.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[Hero Eco]

David/Mark.
I looked to enter the survey but found as a seller it was difficult to make it apply.
Out of interest what legislation are you lobbying towards that you would like to retain the use of a throttle? From a commercial viewpoint I am finding that to satisfy the market I am including throttles on all my new models.
Countries such as Holland and Germany are already signed up to EN15194 but I remember you saying that Wisper bikes sold well in Europe because of the throttle facility so why do we need to worry-if you can sell throttles into Europe with the current EC legislation if our government finally gets its act together on EN 15194 surely we will be in the same situation.
Who is your opposition against throttles?
Dave
Kudoscycles

Hi Dave

A letter of support from Kudos would be much appreciated if you can.

Opposition is the Bicycle Association, who don't like the idea of throttles. 'A bicycle is something thats pedalled' in their opinion. Whilst this maybe true to a certain degree, they are totally missing the point, a throttle will make cycling far more inclusive, I don't need to bore you with all the reasons

Eddie; we now work with the Motorcycle Industry Association who support our case and see it as a great way to start 14 years old on powered 2 wheels, with the hope they will move up onto scooters and motorcycles in later life.

The power that be are very keen not to upset current customers, or restrict growth. This is why we stand a good chance.

BEBA's proposal is to adapt EN15194 to allow throttles, but stick with the 15.5mph and 250W motor. So in essence, the only change to the UK law is to increase the motor wattage by 50W, not a big ask...

We will of course keep all posted, and really appreciate anyone taking the time to complete the survey. It really is important that we get as many respondents as possible, so feel free to re-post wherever relevant.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Mark,
I will draft a letter of support in your lobbying directed towards BEBA.
I agree that a throttle is a safety device, for some pedelec users it is obligatory.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[eddieo]

Mark and David, what's the chance of getting UK to adopt the German high speed class. This would give hope to the busy commuter and get them out of cars I would think.......

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Sorry I did mean opposition, not competition, it is the competition who are against leaving the choice of having a throttle (or not) to the consumer.

Mark explains the situation well and succinctly!

We at BEBA believe the electric bike with a throttle makes cycling a more inclusive mode of transport for all ignoring many disabilities and health issues. The opposition is made up of more purist cycling retailers and manufacturers who recently have started to support pedelecs. The beauty of a pedelec is that they can be ridden without tax, license etc. Why should those with health issues be excluded from this mode of transport?

We are not demanding that a throttle should be made mandatory, so those who would prefer not to have a throttle can still purchase a pedelec without.

EN15194 only allows for the use of a throttle up to 6kph (4mph) although this has recently been outlawed in Germany. Wisper bikes conform to EN15194 when they are delivered to our dealers. In the UK the throttle is still legal, so we give our dealers instructions on how to enable the throttle through to 15.5MPH if the purchaser requires the extra assistance.

We certainly hope that the MOFA class of high speed pedelec will soon be available in the UK Eddie and are working to that end. To ride MOFA pedelec, German law requires; the use of a helmet, that the rider holds a current driving license, the fitting of a visible license plate and that the rider has current third party insurance. The MOFA or speed pedelec can travel at speeds of up to 45kph and can use a more powerful motor.

All the best

David

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/B5XFRYD

 

[flecc]

We certainly hope that the MOFA class of high speed pedelec will soon be available in the UK Eddie and are working to that end. To ride MOFA pedelec, German law requires; the use of a helmet, that the rider holds a current driving license, the fitting of a visible license plate and that the rider has current third party insurance. The MOFA or speed pedelec can travel at speeds of up to 45kph and can use a more powerful motor.

The trouble is that this is effectively identical to moped restrictions, so it doesn't really open up the market in the UK where there is already a strong pro motor vehicle bias. Almost all will just opt for a moped anyway.

 

[Kudoscycles]

I am in favour of throttles but I think the 250 watt limit is enough. I just dont see many UK customers finding the MOFA class attractive. If the MOFA bike could go everywhere that a pedelec can then I could,reluctantly,see customers for it,but the MOFA bike cannot go along seafronts,cycle paths and combined with helmet,licence plate,insurance requirements its a dead duck.
The problem is that many MOFA bikes are already used illegally in the UK,if the class were legal in the UK it would be impossible for the police to determine what locations are ok/not ok.
Keep throttles in,MOFA out and it will be good for us all.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[10mph]

Just in case anyone is wondering what a MOFA bike is:

My first scan of this thread read it as Mo Fa, and I wondered what Mo Farah was doing on a bike.

Then I found on E A C C:

Mofa
A motorised bicycle (abbreviation of Motorfahrrad). In Germany the Mofa is the equivalent of the Dutch snorfiets and is limited to 25km/h.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

MOFA bikes are essentially electric mopeds, without the noise and pollution, and I agree the uptake would not be huge especially as a MOFA will cost at least double the price of a moped and will have very restricted range by comparison. However...... I am massively pro choice in all things. There are no reasons why this class of bike will not eventually take off in the UK as it has already in Germany.

I have ridden a few MOFA bikes and the combination of pedaling and speed is amazing, so much more exciting then riding a moped. I am convinced that there would be a good number of people, especially the young professional commuter in the UK who, as in Germany, would be ready to did deep and buy such a machine.

All the best

David