Be Careful Out There

Hello all

I know this type of thing is wheeled out periodically but this has been an exceptionally bad weekend for cyclists.

Just outside Glasgow, a police superintendent (55) died on Friday after being in collision with a car while out riding during his lunch hour. The accident happened a few miles from Strathclyde Police’s Training and Recruitment Centre at Jackton - all this is a bit close for me as the guy is the same age as me and I live a few miles from where this happened.

In Essex a cyclist died when struck by a car on the A130 main road at Ford End, Chelmsford at around 9am on Sunday. An 18-year old male was arrested and charged with causing death by dangerous driving before being released on bail until Tuesday.

Also on Sunday an elderly cyclist died at the scene when in collision with a Renault Clio near the White Hart pub in Maidstone Road, Marden, a village about nine miles south of Maidstone.

In Gloucestershire a 52-year old man sustained serious leg injuries after being struck by a Ford Focus driven by an 82-year-old man, close to a lay-by on the A38 in Moreton Valence.

In County Armagh, Northern Ireland a cyclist was also seriously injured following a collision with a camper van on the Tandragee Road, near Newry on Sunday

Also on Sunday, a 47-year old woman received serious injuries following an accident at Brooke Shute on the Isle of Wight.

As I say, a bad weekend - all over the country. Just a point - you get bail ok for killing someone with a car - but for knives, guns etc you're in the slammer? If I were the family of the poor guy in Essex I'd be asking questions asto why an 18 yr old can swan out on bail after mowing down an innocent guy

Saw some stats from road.cc saying that last year 104 cyclists were killed and 2606 seriously injured on Britain’s roads. I don't have any frame of reference for this - is that a lot compared with other years / other countries ?

Anyway - watch yourselves

Rab

Because in British law there is a presumption of innocence not guilt?

I was nearly knocked down on Friday by I think a mini cab driver again....This time no collision took place. It was a wide junction, with no traffic, I had right of way and was shocked when he started speeding toward me.

I just think a lot of car drivers are not aware of cyclists and are blind to us, simply not conscious of us....... but with cab drivers the added hazard is that they have been up all night, and shouldn't be driving:mad:

In Essex a cyclist died when struck by a car on the A130 main road at Ford End, Chelmsford at around 9am on Sunday. An 18-year old male was arrested and charged with causing death by dangerous driving before being released on bail until Tuesday.

[sNIP]

As I say, a bad weekend - all over the country. Just a point - you get bail ok for killing someone with a car - but for knives, guns etc you're in the slammer? If I were the family of the poor guy in Essex I'd be asking questions asto why an 18 yr old can swan out on bail after mowing down an innocent guy

Arresting people for dangerous driving is standard procedure even if the driver is clearly not to blame, if he is to blame he's unlikely to go out and do it again so why does he need to be kept in prison until a court finds him guilty?

.. if he is to blame he's unlikely to go out and do it again so why does he need to be kept in prison until a court finds him guilty?

Christ, where do you live - the Hebrides ?

You reckon it's ok to let these little pricks in their souped-up Corsas out on the road again because they're "unlikely to go out and do it again" - where the hell did you get that one from ?

Reality check badly needed - anyway, best close correspondence on this one before the barrack-room lawyers descend upon us with their legal theory.

You reckon it's ok to let these little pricks in their souped-up Corsas out on the road again because they're "unlikely to go out and do it again" - where the hell did you get that one from ?

The point was that someone awaiting trial under a dangerous driving charge is unlikely to drive dangerously before their hearing so it's reasonable to let them out on bail until then.

If they are found guilty then it's time to lock them up.

Christ, where do you live - the Hebrides ?

 

You reckon it's ok to let these little pricks in their souped-up Corsas out on the road again because they're "unlikely to go out and do it again" - where the hell did you get that one from ?

 

Reality check badly needed - anyway, best close correspondence on this one before the barrack-room lawyers descend upon us with their legal theory.

Was he a little prick in a souped up Corsa, or was he driving through a green traffic light when the bike crossed in front of him. Just because a cyclist died doesn't mean it's the motorists fault.

Christ, where do you live - the Hebrides ?

 

You reckon it's ok to let these little pricks in their souped-up Corsas out on the road again because they're "unlikely to go out and do it again" - where the hell did you get that one from ?

 

Reality check badly needed - anyway, best close correspondence on this one before the barrack-room lawyers descend upon us with their legal theory.

maybe its you that needs the reality check...with all this unbridled and paranoid animosity towards the young and car drivers in general:rolleyes:

maybe its you that needs the reality check...with all this unbridled and paranoid animosity towards the young and car drivers in general:rolleyes:

No - just the ones that drive like pricks

Driver admits he killed five in crash - The Scotsman

The main message of the thread is still valid though. Be careful out there.

My old short journey to work was all side roads and no problem but in the 2 weeks I've been commuting along main roads I've had 4 sphincter clenching moments. All from drivers that were just inattentive, regardless of age.

No - just the ones that drive like pricks

 

Driver admits he killed five in crash - The Scotsman

What on earth has this story got to do with cyclists.

Colin

Last weekend, in the space of an hour I saw two cyclists lying in the road in agony. The first probably got hit by a bus, but I only saw the police and ambulance and no other vehicle. The second was a car, and the driver was trying to help the cyclist.

A few years ago another cyclist got killed by a bus at the end of my street. The driver was distracted because he was talking to an off-duty bus driver.

Then one of my neighbours died under the wheels of a lorry while cycling. This incident led to proper cycle lanes and stuff being installed along that road.

Then there was the guy I saw being taken away in an ambulance after a horrific crash between a motorbike and people carrier. As I drove past the accident site, it became clear that the car had turned into the bike's path. Severe damage to both vehicles, and as I sped down the road, found the wing mirror of the motorbike a good 30-40 yards away.

My mum would rather me have a small car, than my current bike, or the Vespa because of the safety issues. I'm appaled by the standards of driving, especially by private hire cars who always stop in cycle lanes, and worse pull out in front of you, or pass with just inches to spare.

The point was that someone awaiting trial under a dangerous driving charge is unlikely to drive dangerously before their hearing so it's reasonable to let them out on bail until then.

I can't work out the logic here. Are you actually saying that the process of being arrested, interviewed and then released on bail, will be sufficient deterrent to prevent the person from doing it again?

Last weekend, in the space of an hour I saw two cyclists lying in the road in agony. The first probably got hit by a bus, but I only saw the police and ambulance and no other vehicle.

 

You suspect a bus ,but it wasnt it on the scene of the accident? What made you think he had been hit by a bus? Had he waited two hours to be hit and then got hit by two other vehicles as he stuck his hand out to ask them to stop?

 

 

A few years ago another cyclist got killed by a bus at the end of my street. The driver was distracted because he was talking to an off-duty bus driver.

 

You really hate bus drivers dont you ?

 

Then one of my neighbours died under the wheels of a lorry while cycling. This incident led to proper cycle lanes and stuff being installed along that road.

 

Other stuff ? No bus lanes I guess?

 

Then there was the guy I saw being taken away in an ambulance after a horrific crash between a motorbike and people carrier. As I drove past the accident site, it became clear that the car had turned into the bike's path. Severe damage to both vehicles, and as I sped down the road, found the wing mirror of the motorbike a good 30-40 yards away.

 

The wing mirror was probably caught by a bus,it happens.

 

My mum would rather me have a small car, than my current bike, or the Vespa because of the safety issues. .

How old are you? Dyou live with your mum then?

Sorry Im a techno fool,Ive replied to the post in the grey box above,trying to add some humour and I ruin it !

If I don't get killed riding in the next two weeks, I should make it to 25!

Only buses and taxis and maybe delivery vehicles are allowed down that road, but its mostly buses. I think probably the bus driver didn't realise. There's been loads of accidents on the High Street involving buses!

Ironically, it was the poor bus service and extortionate fares that put me on an ebike in the first place, and not to mention the overcrowding and delays. I actually wanted to be a bus driver once!

Edited October 11, 201015 yr by Synthman

I can't work out the logic here. Are you actually saying that the process of being arrested, interviewed and then released on bail, will be sufficient deterrent to prevent the person from doing it again?

Who said he was driving dangerously in the first place? Being arrested for something and being convicted of it are two very different things.

Who said he was driving dangerously in the first place? Being arrested for something and being convicted of it are two very different things.

No one said that he was guilty of driving dangerously. I was responding to the scenario whereby he is actual to blame for the accident and the fact that he has been arrested is sufficient to deter him from doing it again.

It was you who proposed this scenario when you said;

" if he is to blame he's unlikely to go out and do it again so why does he need to be kept in prison until a court finds him guilty?"

It's just the correlation between bail and no repeat offending that I find difficult to understand.

 

Sorry Im a techno fool,Ive replied to the post in the grey box above,trying to add some humour and I ruin it !

When you click the quote button you see something like this at the start of the quote:

 

And this at the end of the quote:

 

[/quote ]

 

I've inserted spaces in those to prevent them appearing as a quote, but if you make sure each bit you want in grey starts and finishes with those two by copying them to each quote section, then place your reply below each quote section.

.

 

As I say, a bad weekend - all over the country. Just a point - you get bail ok for killing someone with a car - but for knives, guns etc you're in the slammer? If I were the family of the poor guy in Essex I'd be asking questions asto why an 18 yr old can swan out on bail after mowing down an innocent guy

 

 

 

Rab

In the case of the car driver, he probably never went out with the intention of killing as would possibly be the case for someone using a knife or gun to kill.

He would only get bail if the police were confident he would appear at court, which suggests he come's from a pretty stable background, is probably in regular employment, not a frequent offender, unlikely to do a runner and may have had someone sign surety.

Also, its not entirely true that knife and gun offenders don't get bail. In cases of possession of a weapon, self defence or possible doubt as to their guilt, bail can be awarded often with sureties of many thousands of pounds.

If the police refuse bail the court may award it or visa-versa.

Forgive me for having my opinion, but after forty years riding motorcycles and an advanced rider,taken when I was 62, and now also enjoying cycling,as well as motoring ,I have come to the conclusion that the average driver simply don't care if they knock you off your bike ...I have even heard a motorist actually say that......So what hope is there?!

Ray

Whatever motorists think, let's make sure we give them a chance to at least see us. Don't forget good lights and high-vis clothing when it's dark or gloomy.

It's amazing how many cyclists seem to assume motorists are all wearing night-vision glasses. And they really cannot be seen until it's - sometimes - too late.

But how are we to ensure that motorists see us given the universal use of dipped headlights even in well-lit city streets? Cyclists and pedestrians become almost invisible to on-coming traffic when they are in front of vehicles with dipped headlights.

I understand the practice of driving with dipped headlights even in well-lit areas is not a legal requirement but started in the late seventies when the police began stopping and warning drivers who were using only side-lights.

The practice is not helpful to pedestrians on the pavement either. I well remember, after it was introduced, walking on city side streets, and being blinded by oncoming dipped headlights, with the result I could not see the pavement in front of me or avoid the dog turds scattered over it.

In the case of the car driver, he probably never went out with the intention of killing as would possibly be the case for someone using a knife or gun to kill.

He would only get bail if the police were confident he would appear at court, which suggests he come's from a pretty stable background, is probably in regular employment, not a frequent offender, unlikely to do a runner and may have had someone sign surety.

Also, its not entirely true that knife and gun offenders don't get bail. In cases of possession of a weapon, self defence or possible doubt as to their guilt, bail can be awarded often with sureties of many thousands of pounds.

If the police refuse bail the court may award it or visa-versa.

I'm sure that you are entirely correct about the driver not having intent to kill. The fact is, these people go into aresehole mode once behind the wheel of a car. It's in their make up. It's what they are like. The only way to protect the public is to put them in a place where they can do no more harm.

As for bail, that decision is now taken by the CPS (Criminal Protection Service, sorry I meant Crown Prosecution Service)

Example: A driver is disqualified from driving for causing a life altering injury to someone whilst driving with excess alcohol. He is Banned for 5 years. He then drives whilst disqualified, is over the limit, goes through a red traffic light and collides and kills an innocent driver going through the opposing green light. The offending driver is given bail.

I don't know what happened at court but I can't help but find some views expressed in this thread tragically naive. Pereversely I am envious of this.

We are an imperfect species and the more advanced we become, the greater the number and degree of imperfections. Accordingly our society can only continue with increasing tolerance, accepting the pain that results.

.

I agree with Flecc' sentiments , and think our lack of self awareness ( in the metaphysical sense ) coupled with bad habits , social conditioning have us on one charted course with eminent extinction .

We dont have the level of concious awareness to match the level of technology at our disposal , and that makes as reckless and above all dangerous - as global warming , wars etc prove.

With mainstay developments ion teh works that are continually updating computers intelligence , and ability to predict us / thoughts through games , ( take for example the xbox kinetic system coming out next month ) we are treading dangrous lines betwen controller and the controlled.

Edited October 12, 201015 yr by tepol

Whatever motorists think, let's make sure we give them a chance to at least see us. Don't forget good lights and high-vis clothing when it's dark or gloomy.

 

It's amazing how many cyclists seem to assume motorists are all wearing night-vision glasses. And they really cannot be seen until it's - sometimes - too late.

Absolutly right, we do of course have a responsability to make sure we are visible, ...and of course we all do make mistakes!