BBSxx throttle useful information

[Fordulike]

A while ago, I posted that my BBS02 throttle acted like a switch when connected. I deemed this as unsatisfactory and decided not to have a throttle on the bike.

Since then, I have found out the reason why it acted this way. Here is a quote from Paul at Em3ev.

'' The BBS02 kit is configured with current controlled throttle, not speed throttle. If the load is small or no load, it may seem like the throttle is all or nothing, as it hits full speed with just a little throttle. The standard thumb throttle may not be the most progressive throttle, but it is not a switch ''

So, because I was testing the throttle on a bike stand, it appeared to act like a switch. Testing on the road would have seen it acting like a throttle should.

Therefore, anyone who wants to test their throttle, should do so out on the road and not on a bike stand with zero load on the wheel.

 

[mfj197]

That's interesting - my BBS01 from Eclipse didn't behave like that on the bike stand. It was fully proportional. I've just looked at the original programming and yes, the throttle mode is set to Speed not Current. If you're around Surrey and want your throttle mode changing let me know!

I've actually done without the throttle on my bike anyway, as I just want pedal assist.

Michael

 

[Fordulike]

That's interesting - my BBS01 from Eclipse didn't behave like that on the bike stand. It was fully proportional. I've just looked at the original programming and yes, the throttle mode is set to Speed not Current. If you're around Surrey and want your throttle mode changing let me know!

I've actually done without the throttle on my bike anyway, as I just want pedal assist.

Michael

Thanks for offer Michael. Same as you though, I'm happy with the pedal assist.
I did change from 9 levels to 5 though, and found it to be spot on with the way I ride.

As for the throttle mode, mine was from Eclipse too. They were sent to Eclipse from Bafang wrongly programmed, so they had to flash the correct software.
I wonder if the reprogram was different to yours and set on current control instead of speed.

 

[robwalley]

That's interesting - my BBS01 from Eclipse didn't behave like that on the bike stand. It was fully proportional. I've just looked at the original programming and yes, the throttle mode is set to Speed not Current. If you're around Surrey and want your throttle mode changing let me know!

I've actually done without the throttle on my bike anyway, as I just want pedal assist.

Michael

Just finished my KTM Rohloff with a 36v500w BBS02 and my throttle appears to be a switch, but I will test fully on the road if I can find a nice flat 2 mile stretch, I have the USB cable and it appears the 'speed' setting is the way to go, fairly sure mine is 'current' (Woosh bikes)

Also my 9 levels in combination with 52t front and 16t rear Rohloff 14 speed give some interesting results (on the stand). 3.57mph - 50.81mph. On the road it was getting to 30mph in level 6 with throttle or assist, but think the higher assists need a % reduction in the programming to reduce the loading on the controller and I suspect at some point my head. Have you changed the throttle or assist tables?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Setting a crank-drive drive bike to speed control doesn't really work becuse it controls the crank speed rather than the bike speed. Every time you change up a gear, you get another surge of power like if you cruise with the anti-stall in your car when in a traffic jam. Conversely, if you change down a gear get get mord torque, you lse all power.

 

[robwalley]

Setting a crank-drive drive bike to speed control doesn't really work becuse it controls the crank speed rather than the bike speed. Every time you change up a gear, you get another surge of power like if you cruise with the anti-stall in your car when in a traffic jam. Conversely, if you change down a gear get get mord torque, you lse all power.

True, but the rohloff isn't fond of changing under load, so the foot comes off anyway and I'm still not convinced by people saying the 'current' setting is more than a switch, if it is, it's very slow, rpm (speed) should be much quicker to change, don't get me wrong I don't really want to use the throttle, but when I do, response within one gear is more important (to me) (maybe) (probably)

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It'll only appear as a switch when there's no load on the bike. You won't get that on he road.

 

[robwalley]

It'll only appear as a switch when there's no load on the bike. You won't get that on he road.

Just been out and tested in level 1 and 2 and absolutely no difference in the whole throttle range, stayed the same speed throughout on a nice flat road.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The levels only affect the PAS, not the throttle.

 

[robwalley]

In the default mode my BBS02 came with PAS and throttle rpm in each level are the same or very close, the throttle is not 100% in every level, although it will be after programming. That's not what I meant anyway, the thumb throttle on my previous oxydrive hub motor was variable, this throttle is on or off, it doesn't get faster when pushing it forward.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Does it get faster when you're on the road?

 

[One_Box]

In the default mode my BBS02 came with PAS and throttle rpm in each level are the same or very close, the throttle is not 100% in every level, although it will be after programming. That's not what I meant anyway, the thumb throttle on my previous oxydrive hub motor was variable, this throttle is on or off, it doesn't get faster when pushing it forward.

The throttle on my BBS01 is definitely variable, the more I press it down the faster the bike goes!

 

[mfj197]

BBSxx drives are obviously coming with different programming parameters - interesting they are so wildly different in some cases.

The levels only affect the PAS, not the throttle.

Not necessarily, depends how it's programmed. On the Throttle Handle tab in the software the Designated Assist sets the amount of assistance provided by the throttle. If this is set to one of the assistance levels (0-9) it will always give that level of assistance (it's usually set to 9), but if it is set to "By Display's Command" it will be limited by the assistance level selected on the display.

There are some other parameters on the Throttle Handle tab which might make the throttle appear like a switch, such as the Start Voltage and End Voltage which give the voltage range that the controller expects to see from the throttle. If these are set close together then the throttle would also act like a switch, although I can't see why it would be set this way.

Here are the settings for the Throttle Handle tab on my BBS01. I haven't changed them, and they give a fully proportional throttle on the bike stand (useful for setting the bike up in the first instance):

Have you changed the throttle or assist tables?

Not the Throttle Handle settings as mentioned above, but I have changed both the Basic and Pedal Assist tabs. The big changes I've made are the following:

• On the Basic tab I've set the Limit Spd(%) to 100 for every assist level (except Asst0). This allows the motor to provide assistance throughout the cadence range even at low assist levels.
• On the Pedal Assist tab I've set the Keep Current(%) setting to 100 to allow full assistance via PAS (it was set to 60). There has been some debate over what this setting does and some people think it only constrains the amount of assistance provided once the Limit Spd(%) has been exceeded, whereas others believe it constrains the amount of assistance provided throughout.

Michael

 

[robwalley]

BBSxx drives are obviously coming with different programming parameters - interesting they are so wildly different in some cases.

Not necessarily, depends how it's programmed. On the Throttle Handle tab in the software the Designated Assist sets the amount of assistance provided by the throttle. If this is set to one of the assistance levels (0-9) it will always give that level of assistance (it's usually set to 9), but if it is set to "By Display's Command" it will be limited by the assistance level selected on the display.

There are some other parameters on the Throttle Handle tab which might make the throttle appear like a switch, such as the Start Voltage and End Voltage which give the voltage range that the controller expects to see from the throttle. If these are set close together then the throttle would also act like a switch, although I can't see why it would be set this way.

Here are the settings for the Throttle Handle tab on my BBS01. I haven't changed them, and they give a fully proportional throttle on the bike stand (useful for setting the bike up in the first instance):

Not the Throttle Handle settings as mentioned above, but I have changed both the Basic and Pedal Assist tabs. The big changes I've made are the following:

• On the Basic tab I've set the Limit Spd(%) to 100 for every assist level (except Asst0). This allows the motor to provide assistance throughout the cadence range even at low assist levels.
• On the Pedal Assist tab I've set the Keep Current(%) setting to 100 to allow full assistance via PAS (it was set to 60). There has been some debate over what this setting does and some people think it only constrains the amount of assistance provided once the Limit Spd(%) has been exceeded, whereas others believe it constrains the amount of assistance provided throughout.

Michael

Cheers, I needed some programming parameters for this. I have the usb/serial cable, just waiting for the 3m usb extension (not allowed to borrow the wife's laptop). I suspect my throttle is set to current which some say is variable, other say is static(ish). My basic setting are ok for me on my own, but way to quick for a family ride even in level 1, I can drop down gears but the cadence becomes to quick. I need a good range. Assume you haven't fried any controllers yet?

 

[mfj197]

Cheers, I needed some programming parameters for this. I have the usb/serial cable, just waiting for the 3m usb extension (not allowed to borrow the wife's laptop). I suspect my throttle is set to current which some say is variable, other say is static(ish). My basic setting are ok for me on my own, but way to quick for a family ride even in level 1, I can drop down gears but the cadence becomes to quick. I need a good range. Assume you haven't fried any controllers yet?

Nope, no fried controllers - indeed the changes I've made reduce the loading on the controller rather than increase it. Allowing full cadence in lower assist levels is far more natural, so I'm usually in level 2 (out of 5). This should be a 6A drive current, although I haven't measured it.

I'm very surprised you're getting too much power in level 1, but don't forget there's a level 0 as well if 1 is too quick.

 

[One_Box]

Where does one obtain the hardware, software and instructions to alter the BBS01 250W programming ?

I would certainly like to tweek the upper PAS level to bring it more in line with the throttle on max.

 

[mfj197]

Where does one obtain the hardware, software and instructions to alter the BBS01 250W programming ?

Here you go:
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/bbs02-programming-lead-wanted.21570/
For software and instructions the best thing to do is to read this thread on Endless Sphere, particularly in reference to downloading the software (or message me and I'll email it to you). Emax ebikes in Australia also have some clearer and more concise instructions to programming the motor here.

Michael

 

[One_Box]

Thanks so much, I will take a look

 

[One_Box]

Just purchased the USB programming lead from EMPowered in the U.S.A.

 

[robwalley]

Just purchased the USB programming lead from EMPowered in the U.S.A.

Me too, 3m usb extension just turned up from amazon as I'm stuck with a desktop PC. Much fiddling later.