Bbshd realistic range on full power

[minexplorer]

Am thinking of building one of these.On a marin hc xt.Typical mtb.What a buzz that power would be.But not if you have to ride it around on PAS 1-2 all the time. I have a bbs01 350w on a giant sedona and love it.But that only gives 22-27 miles from a 17.4 ah samsung 29E. using plenty of full 18amp throttling.Quite hilly here in west cornwall. i have the pas speed limit at 17.5mph.

So with 30amps an a 48v 17.5ah batt or 52v 15ah whats a realistc range?Ive heard the motors have a higher efficiency than the bbs1/2 Are certain cells going to make difference, samsung 30q inr or sanyo ncr ga for example.

Ive tried to research but peoples figures vary so.Most seem to ride at such low power that they may as well have a bbs01 on full power. I want that wow feeling but not if its only good for 15miles.Would a huge expensive batt realistcally be needed.So is there any point ? Id welcome opinions esp real range from owners.Thanks

 

[tommie]

So with 30amps an a 48v 17.5ah batt or 52v 15ah whats a realistc range?Ive heard the motors have a higher efficiency than the bbs1/2 Are certain cells going to make difference, samsung 30q inr or sanyo ncr ga for example.

Ive tried to research but peoples figures vary so.Most seem to ride at such low power that they may as well have a bbs01 on full power. I want that wow feeling but not if its only good for 15miles.

I have that exact same setup on a Whyte Hybrid.
Comparing to what you have now is like comparing a 1.1 fiesta to a 3ltr Merc/BMW, they`ll both do the job but one will be smooth, effortless and silent.
I very rarely need to go above PAS 3-5 even on the steepest hills, whats the point?
A BBSHD at 30ah and set on PAS 9 and ridden like a lunatic is approaching moped territory - you don`t really want to go there on what is a push-bike.

 

[minexplorer]

I have that exact same setup on a Whyte Hybrid.
Comparing to what you have now is like comparing a 1.1 fiesta to a 3ltr Merc/BMW, they`ll both do the job but one will be smooth, effortless and silent.
I very rarely need to go above PAS 3-5 even on the steepest hills, whats the point?
A BBSHD at 30ah and set on PAS 9 and ridden like a lunatic is approaching moped territory - you don`t really want to go there on what is a push-bike.

Hi tommie on 3-5 i suppose thats around the same power as my bbs01 on max ? Do you find you get 33% more range as its a 48ah of same size or is it even better if a more efficient motor. Is 48 or 52 the better choice for these,thanks

 

[seosamh1977]

I've tested my brothers bbshd, 48v 11.4ah battery. so 547wh.

On pure flat tarmac i managed 38 miles on one run, still had 2 bars left on the battery, flickering in to 1 though, so i reckon 45 to 50 miles on the flat is possible. stock setting, assist no higher than 3.

I also did a hilly offroad mtb loop on it, around 600m of climb, and 22.5 miles, had 1 bar left, so maybe could top that out at 25 miles on that, again stock setting, running 3 mostly, but up to 5 and occasionally 6 for steep bits.

Conditions were good, dry, dusty and sunny, no wind. I'd lower tyre pressure for the mtb run

I'm just over 18st. but i pedal fairly efficiently, 90rpm on the flat, 78 rpm on the hills, and i always made sure there was some resistance on the pedals.

Here's the tracking for the off road run.

http://www.mapmyride.com/workout/2894566669

edit: i fixed that link, hadn't made it public.

 

[tommie]

I`ve never ran my 17.5 aH battery down but i reckon its good for 50 miles at least riding sensibly,
this one was built by Jimmy at Insat, London, Panasonic GA cells

 

[peter.c]

Tommie hit the nail on the head its not so much about the ah its more about the quality of the cells used in the battery, I went for higher capacity at 36v with what I know now, for offroad it would be 52v with GA cells and bbshd every time its just a shame I blew the budget on the 36v. Don't get me wrong I am happy with the 36volt kit but more volts less amps = more watts bigger because you can always turn the power down

 

[minexplorer]

Tommie hit the nail on the head its not so much about the ah its more about the quality of the cells used in the battery, I went for higher capacity at 36v with what I know now, for offroad it would be 52v with GA cells and bbshd every time its just a shame I blew the budget on the 36v. Don't get me wrong I am happy with the 36volt kit but more volts less amps = more watts bigger because you can always turn the power down

Hmm i wonder then if i went wrong before.My bbs01 350w has a 17.4 ah
battery made of samsung 29E cells.I never get more than 27miles with plenty of full throttle on hills (quite hilly here). Its always puzzled me how others say they get that from batteries of only 10 or 11ah.Are those cells pretty naff?

Eclipse sell a 48v 17.5ah for £399 GA cells .The biggest 52v I saw 15ah 30Q cells was a uk ebay seller £449. Unless anyone seen anything better ,what one? I will be more road than trail prob.But Then i keep reading 48v will suffer voltage sag, hard decision im paranoid after the other battery about range,will 15ah be enough,i want to be able to use a good amount of high power ,Thanks

 

[Fordulike]

Hmm i wonder then if i went wrong before.My bbs01 350w has a 17.4 ah
battery made of samsung 29E cells.I never get more than 27miles with plenty of full throttle on hills (quite hilly here). Its always puzzled me how others say they get that from batteries of only 10 or 11ah.Are those cells pretty naff?

Eclipse sell a 48v 17.5ah for £399 GA cells .The biggest 52v I saw 15ah 30Q cells was a uk ebay seller £449. Unless anyone seen anything better ,what one? I will be more road than trail prob.But Then i keep reading 48v will suffer voltage sag, hard decision im paranoid after the other battery about range,will 15ah be enough,i want to be able to use a good amount of high power ,Thanks

Comparing my previous Samsung 29E 11.6Ah 48v battery with my current Samsung 30Q 12Ah 48v battery, I would say that the Samsung 30Q's are far superior to the 29E's.

 

[minexplorer]

I've tested my brothers bbshd, 48v 11.4ah battery. so 547wh.

On pure flat tarmac i managed 38 miles on one run, still had 2 bars left on the battery, flickering in to 1 though, so i reckon 45 to 50 miles on the flat is possible. stock setting, assist no higher than 3.

I also did a hilly offroad mtb loop on it, around 600m of climb, and 22.5 miles, had 1 bar left, so maybe could top that out at 25 miles on that, again stock setting, running 3 mostly, but up to 5

Im amazed at those distances.I dont get that from a 17.4ah on a bbs01 350w.Decent quality i think from eclipse samsung 29E cells.

 

[minexplorer]

Comparing my previous Samsung 29E 11.6Ah 48v battery with my current Samsung 30Q 12Ah 48v battery, I would say that the Samsung 30Q's are far superior to the 29E's.

Better range ah for ah fordulike? Would u put a 48v or 52v on a bbshd?

 

[Fordulike]

Better range ah for ah fordulike? Would u put a 48v or 52v on a bbshd?

It's terrible voltage sag and loss of capacity that I experienced with the Samsung 29E pack. At approximately the same age and usage, my current 30Q pack is still going strong. IMHO, 48v or 52v doesn't make much of a difference, but the quality of the cells do. Voltage sag is the enemy, especially if you program the BBSxx for performance.

 

[minexplorer]

It's terrible voltage sag and loss of capacity that I experienced with the Samsung 29E pack. At approximately the same age and usage, my current 30Q pack is still going strong. IMHO, 48v or 52v doesn't make much of a difference, but the quality of the cells do. Voltage sag is the enemy, especially if you program the BBSxx for performance.

What uve said prob explains why ive been disapointed with the 29E 17.4ah for range when others get just as many miles from smaller batteries.They prob have better cells.Its a learning curve i didnt know much at the time.I wondered why eclipse had lower ah batteries that were more expensive than the one i picked. Just went for the biggest AH.An boy did it sag after two thirds drained today. Do u think the sanyo /panasonic GA cells be as good as the 30Q ? Im reading a lot of people saying bbshd will suffer sag with 48v maybe they not GA or 30Q cells tho?

 

[Nealh]

What you have to learn or realise is that you can't expect 10/15a rated cells to deliver both high amps draw and max range, it's a trade off of either one or a compromise of both esp with 4 or 5 P configuration and 3 - 4 kg battery. If you want more of both then you need a heavier battery which means 6 or 7 20+a rated cells in parallel.

The 29E is a so so low to moderate use cell not for more then 18/20a use in spurts.
For errand running and commuting on fairly flatish terrain my 3+ yr old 29E batteries will only do me up to 24 miles using assist 3 with my Kt 20a controller, drop to assist 2 and I get 35 - 40 miles by drawing less amps.
The main difference is acceleration is a tad slower which is something that doesn't bother me as the top end speed is the same at nigh on 20mph.

Like for like using same cells in P 48V see's less sag then 36v, what users don't realise is that when you go up the V scale larger batteries tend to have less cells in P due to the constraint of case size and extra cells needed for the series connection.

 

[anotherkiwi]

One word: LiPo...

The only way to wean me of my LiPo habit would be a spot welder and a big box of Sanyo 20700 cells - 15 Amps and 4100 mAh capacity. A 6P or 7P 12S would do the trick. Missing from the equation are the € to make it happen!

 

[minexplorer]

What you have to learn or realise is that you can't expect 10/15a rated cells to deliver both high amps draw and max range, it's a trade off of either one or a compromise of both esp with 4 or 5 P configuration and 3 - 4 kg battery. If you want more of both then you need a heavier battery which means 6 or 7 20+a rated cells in parallel.

The 29E is a so so low to moderate use cell not for more then 18/20a use in spurts.
For errand running and commuting on fairly flatish terrain my 3+ yr old 29E batteries will only do me up to 24 miles using assist 3 with my Kt 20a controller, drop to assist 2 and I get 35 - 40 miles by drawing less amps.

Yeah i see what u mean.The sags when im using full throttle 18amp for extended periods not spurts.Its ok during the 1st half of the batt.I also got around 38 miles a cpl times i used pas3 and little throttle.Now ive learned more i hope ive made a better choice for my bbshd build.Ordered a 52v 15ah 14s5p 70 30Q cells.Couldnt find one with GA cells except 48v .Kept seeing people reccomending 52v for bbshd to avoid voltage sag.

 

[Fordulike]

Kept seeing people reccomending 52v for bbshd to avoid voltage sag.

52v won't avoid voltage sag, it's probably just a little less noticeable than a 48v pack.

I find that even though the 30Q's still sag when the pack is past half empty, I can change my riding style a little to compensate. This only works on a mid drive. It involves using the next gear up, as although the voltage is lower, the quality cells still provide plenty of amps. Therefore I can maintain the same speed as if the pack were freshly charged.

 

[wheeliepete]

The HD will run fine on 48 or 52v, but as the voltage drops, the 52 will keep the voltage a little higher for longer, so you will suffer less performance drop, but to be honest, the HD has so much power, I doubt you will notice. Personally, I would chose 52, just for the buzz of seeing 1700+ draw on my watt meter with a freshly charged batteryDid you order your battery from EM3EV?

 

[minexplorer]

The HD will run fine on 48 or 52v, but as the voltage drops, the 52 will keep the voltage a little higher for longer, so you will suffer less performance drop, but to be honest, the HD has so much power, I doubt you will notice. Personally, I would chose 52, just for the buzz of seeing 1700+ draw on my watt meter with a freshly charged batteryDid you order your battery from EM3EV?

No a surrey based 'custom ebike builder and importer' ELECTRONCYCLES who sells on ebay .He seems to know what hes talking about

 

[peter.c]

Electroncycles had complete kits on ebay earlier this year motors reprogramed to 1700 watts and 2 styles of 52v battery the write up of the adds was complete and informative only a few adds now no kits

 

[francis janssen]

these are back in stock