Battery Repair & Recelling

[chris301up]

If anyone is having problems with their batteries I can recommend this guy who is based in Wolverhampton. He is currently (excuse the pun) recelling my battery at, what I think is, a very competitive price. Obviously batteries differ so prices are charged accordingly.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1067980824012217/?ref=saved&referral_code=null

 

[wheeliepete]

If anyone is having problems with their batteries I can highly recommend this guy who is based in Wolverhampton. He is currently (excuse the pun) recelling my battery at a very competitive price.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1067980824012217/?ref=saved&referral_code=null

So as not to mislead anyone, it may be a little premature to highly recommend someone/something until you have the battery back and have run it for a while to ensure it works as it should.

 

[Nealh]

What do you call a competitive £££ ?

 

[soundwave]

What do you call a competitive £££ ?

Re-Build Re-Celling Repair SERVICE 12V 24V 36V 48V 52V 60V 72V
£15

thats what the add says and a pic from his fb page.



now look at the cells up close, some have spot welds and been ripped off and some with solder on them

 

[chris301up]

Re-Build Re-Celling Repair SERVICE 12V 24V 36V 48V 52V 60V 72V
£15

thats what the add says and a pic from his fb page.

View attachment 45116

now look at the cells up close, some have spot welds and been ripped off and some with solder on them

This is the picture I get from F/B

 

[chris301up]

So as not to mislead anyone, it may be a little premature to highly recommend someone/something until you have the battery back and have run it for a while to ensure it works as it should.

Okay. Fair comment I suppose. I just thought I would post this as I couldn't find anyone else to do this for me. Even when asking the question on this site. Will post my post my findings when I know more

 

[matthewslack]

This is the picture I get from F/B

View attachment 45118

All the cells in a good battery are the same make and type, so that they all perform close to identically. That random collection of cells is of no use for demanding applications like an ebike.

It stands a good chance of serious failure as the weakest cell gets a hammering, and that can mean fire in the battery. Think of all the places ebikes get to, and the consequences of the kind of fire that cannot be extinguished, but has to be left to just burn itself out.

The best strategy is to simply accept that a proper good battery does come with a hit on cost, spend the money wisely once, look after it, don't push it every ride to zero capacity or constantly demand full current from it, and start enjoying some reliable riding!

 

[I893469365902345609348566]

This is the picture I get from F/B

View attachment 45118

To me, that photo looks absolutely terrifying! I have eco-minded mates who tried making ebike battery packs using salvaged cells. They were very good at the soldering part, but gave up because the battery packs either didn't supply enough current, had little capacity for their size, or they burst into flames. I prefer a broken wrist to my house burning down.

 

[chris301up]

All the cells in a good battery are the same make and type, so that they all perform close to identically. That random collection of cells is of no use for demanding applications like an ebike.

It stands a good chance of serious failure as the weakest cell gets a hammering, and that can mean fire in the battery. Think of all the places ebikes get to, and the consequences of the kind of fire that cannot be extinguished, but has to be left to just burn itself out.

The best strategy is to simply accept that a proper good battery does come with a hit on cost, spend the money wisely once, look after it, don't push it every ride to zero capacity or constantly demand full current from it, and start enjoying some reliable riding!

That's fair comment, but there is no way I am going to pay more for a replacement battery when it costs more than I paid for the bike. That is simply false economy. I posted this for those who may want to go for a repair rather than the extortionate cost of a replacement battery.

 

[matthewslack]

That's fair comment, but there is no way I am going to pay more for a replacement battery when it costs more than I paid for the bike. That is simply false economy. I posted this for those who may want to go for a repair rather than the extortionate cost of a replacement battery.

I sympathise with the extortionate cost of replacement batteries - I read recently that the wholesale cost to electric car makers is now around $100/kWh, so to still be asked to pay £1000+/kWh like the new Shimano 630Wh for around £700, is outrageous.

But there is a fundamental principle about safety here, which we all have a citizen's duty to uphold, and actually there is no financial saving buying a battery or battery repair like the one pictured.

The cost might be half, but the cycle life maybe only a tenth.

The way packs like that are assembled is a bunch of secondhand cells - 98 in that case, 14S7P, are each put through a test cycle to measure their capacity at the time of assembly (see the numbers written on the cells) then organised into 14 groups of 7 with similar total capacity, then assembled. That fools the bms and the owner in the short term, I.e the first discharge cycle, but because they are all different ages, different number of cycles, different original capacity etc they degrade at different rates, and very quickly you have a weak cell, and so a weak cell group, and a pile of useless junk.

Hopefully your repair will be done better than that, but if that picture is typical of the repairer's work, I would not hold my breath.

 

[matthewslack]

I sympathise with the extortionate cost of replacement batteries - I read recently that the wholesale cost to electric car makers is now around $100/kWh, so to still be asked to pay £1000+/kWh like the new Shimano 630Wh for around £700, is outrageous.

But there is a fundamental principle about safety here, which we all have a citizen's duty to uphold, and actually there is no financial saving buying a battery or battery repair like the one pictured.

The cost might be half, but the cycle life maybe only a tenth.

The way packs like that are assembled is a bunch of secondhand cells - 98 in that case, 14S7P, are each put through a test cycle to measure their capacity at the time of assembly (see the numbers written on the cells) then organised into 14 groups of 7 with similar total capacity, then assembled. That fools the bms and the owner in the short term, I.e the first discharge cycle, but because they are all different ages, different number of cycles, different original capacity etc they degrade at different rates, and very quickly you have a weak cell, and so a weak cell group, and a pile of useless junk.

Hopefully your repair will be done better than that, but if that picture is typical of the repairer's work, I would not hold my breath.

For anyone who fancies a reverse jigsaw type challenge, there is a very long list of colour coded 18650 cell types in the following link. If I was really bored, I might try and identify each cell in the earlier picture...

Cell Database

secondlifestorage.com

 

[cyclebuddy]

I sympathise with the extortionate cost of replacement batteries...

The replacement cost for a brand new, larger capacity battery for the OP's bike was under £130 delivered, from YP when I last posted. IMHO, any "repair" even using reclaimed cells can't be up to much if it costs a great deal less than that given the labour involved.

 

[Nealh]

Re-Build Re-Celling Repair SERVICE 12V 24V 36V 48V 52V 60V 72V
£15

thats what the add says and a pic from his fb page.

View attachment 45116

now look at the cells up close, some have spot welds and been ripped off and some with solder on them

ES member Turnich in Lithuania or the like offers used cells /packs for sale in a very much similar state as 2nds as does Nkon, the former has access to supplies of defunct Bosh batteries. One expects some or most of the packs are from batteries which have been bricked or ones that are unsaleable.
If it were I, I would ask a few questions as to their provenance.

 

[Nealh]

This is the picture I get from F/B

View attachment 45118

Even worse then the pic SW posted, good reclaimed cells may be ok if all from the same source or decommissioned battery but still a risk unless the provenance/history is known.

 

[chris301up]

I sympathise with the extortionate cost of replacement batteries - I read recently that the wholesale cost to electric car makers is now around $100/kWh, so to still be asked to pay £1000+/kWh like the new Shimano 630Wh for around £700, is outrageous.

But there is a fundamental principle about safety here, which we all have a citizen's duty to uphold, and actually there is no financial saving buying a battery or battery repair like the one pictured.

The cost might be half, but the cycle life maybe only a tenth.

The way packs like that are assembled is a bunch of secondhand cells - 98 in that case, 14S7P, are each put through a test cycle to measure their capacity at the time of assembly (see the numbers written on the cells) then organised into 14 groups of 7 with similar total capacity, then assembled. That fools the bms and the owner in the short term, I.e the first discharge cycle, but because they are all different ages, different number of cycles, different original capacity etc they degrade at different rates, and very quickly you have a weak cell, and so a weak cell group, and a pile of useless junk.

Hopefully your repair will be done better than that, but if that picture is typical of the repairer's work, I would not hold my breath.

I'm not interested in "fundamental principles about safety which we all have a citizen's duty to uphold". I'm just interested in getting the battery repaired so that the bike can be used. At a competitive cost! If the repair works, then great! If not, it isn't the end of the world! Yose Power, for example, when I contacted them couldn't guarantee the one they sold would actually fit my bike so, to get the bike up and running, I decided upon this route of action. I posted this so that anyone in the same position could at least get the battery repaired. I wish I hadn't tried to be helpful now!

 

[Nealh]

Ah but you have been helpful Chris.
One has highlighted a source which may be very suspect in the least.
It is up to the individual to decide.

 

[I893469365902345609348566]

I'm not interested in "fundamental principles about safety which we all have a citizen's duty to uphold". I'm just interested in getting the battery repaired so that the bike can be used. At a competitive cost! If the repair works, then great! If not, it isn't the end of the world! Yose Power, for example, when I contacted them couldn't guarantee the one they sold would actually fit my bike so, to get the bike up and running, I decided upon this route of action. I posted this so that anyone in the same position could at least get the battery repaired. I wish I hadn't tried to be helpful now!

MAY THE ELECTROMOTIVE FORCE BE WITH YOU.... ALWAYS

 

[thirteen]

I'm not interested in "fundamental principles about safety which we all have a citizen's duty to uphold". I'm just interested in getting the battery repaired so that the bike can be used. At a competitive cost! If the repair works, then great! If not, it isn't the end of the world! Yose Power, for example, when I contacted them couldn't guarantee the one they sold would actually fit my bike so, to get the bike up and running, I decided upon this route of action. I posted this so that anyone in the same position could at least get the battery repaired. I wish I hadn't tried to be helpful now!

It was helpful, Chris.

Most of the information I found out from this topic was totally new to me.

I was faced with a similar dilemma recently.

After consulting those more knowledgeable on here, what I did was to buy a new cell pack of similar size to the one in my original battery casing.

 

[chris301up]

It was helpful, Chris.

Most of the information I found out from this topic was totally new to me.

I was faced with a similar dilemma recently.

After consulting those more knowledgeable on here, what I did was to buy a new cell pack of similar size to the one in my original battery casing.

It was helpful, Chris.

Most of the information I found out from this topic was totally new to me.

I was faced with a similar dilemma recently.

After consulting those more knowledgeable on here, what I did was to buy a new cell pack of similar size to the one in my original battery casing.

Just an update on the progress of the battery. I have attached a couple of pictures of the re-celled pack for your information.

The original battery pack contained 4 x P connection strips, with 3 cells only being connected in each P configuration. Effectively one cell per each configuration had been removed during manufacture. Thus giving only three cells per configuration. All remaining cells were only rated at 2 amp which produced just 6ah and not 7ah as stated on the battery case.

The pictures show the new blue cells installed which are rated at 2500mah each cell. Thus returning an uprated battery pack of 2500mah per cell. Equalling 24v x 10ah. I hope this makes sense?

I have posted this for those who, like me, would like to go down the route of having the battery pack re-celled. I decided upon this, not because it was cheaper, but because I couldn't find a suitable replacement for my particular bike at the time. I'm glad I did! I now have a fully re-celled battery pack with uprated cells and the final cost was just £80. Only you can decided what you want to do? I can only recommend you contact this guy (Steven) first! You may just be pleasantly surprised like me!

 

[Nealh]

Looks good Chris you will have to keep the forum up dated with their progress over the next couple of years, good to see you have got new cells all the same brand and not recycled mismatched ones. I haven't found much on them yet but looks like a China branded cell certainly one I have not heard of, quite a few China cells are now emerging and are being looked at as alternatives to the scarce branded ones we know.