battery problem

[ken layhe]

Hi , I am very new to this site and am impressed with some of the forums I've read. But I need some HELP!!

My problem is that I recently bought two E-GLYDE folding bikes for my wife and myself. these were second hand but hardly used. One battery is ok but the other is not charging.

I understand that they were in storage for quite a while. Do I need to have the dud one re-celled or is it possible to boost the battery , I understand from previous forums that it could be the
BMS low voltage cutout preventing the charging taking place.

I've attached some photos, if someone could advise on how to connect a charger to boost this battery It would be appreciated.

Ken

 

[vfr400]

You should check what's wrong with the battery first. Looking at your first photo, at the left end inside the case about a third of the way up is a multi-pin connector. You need to pull it out and measure the voltage on each pin. There are slots in the side of the connector where you can get your probes in, but they have to be pointed probes. Put the black probe on the pin next to the black wire, then measure the voltage with the red probe on each of the other pins. List the results so that we can advise further. Without that info all we can do is make wild guesses that just waste everybody's time.

 

[Andy-Mat]

Hi , I am very new to this site and am impressed with some of the forums I've read. But I need some HELP!!

My problem is that I recently bought two E-GLYDE folding bikes for my wife and myself. these were second hand but hardly used. One battery is ok but the other is not charging.

I understand that they were in storage for quite a while. Do I need to have the dud one re-celled or is it possible to boost the battery , I understand from previous forums that it could be the
BMS low voltage cutout preventing the charging taking place.

I've attached some photos, if someone could advise on how to connect a charger to boost this battery It would be appreciated.

Ken

After you have checked the voltages, as suggested by vfr400, it can be possible in some cases to get a battery "recovered", but it will never be quite as good as it should/would have been if it had been correctly cared for.
Bike manufacturers seem to "skip over" supplying such important advice.
I will wait and see what you find out before posting further.
Andy

 

[ken layhe]

You should check what's wrong with the battery first. Looking at your first photo, at the left end inside the case about a third of the way up is a multi-pin connector. You need to pull it out and measure the voltage on each pin. There are slots in the side of the connector where you can get your probes in, but they have to be pointed probes. Put the black probe on the pin next to the black wire, then measure the voltage with the red probe on each of the other pins. List the results so that we can advise further. Without that info all we can do is make wild guesses that just waste everybody's time.

Hi Thank you for your prompt reply. I don't have a volt meter so have just ordered one from Amazon prime. It will arrive tomorrow so will take readings and get back in touch. Many thanks. Ken Layhe

 

[Nealh]

Just my penneth worth .
One can use a pair of sewing needles or pins as well to poke in to the multi wire connector to touch the probes on to as well. Ken you should get seven voltage readings but expect one to be at or less then 3v, as long as it is above 2.8v the battery should be recoverable. My penneth worth said.
Otherwise I'm out as you are in the very capable hands of vfr, to many cooks and all of that.

 

[ken layhe]

Just my penneth worth .
One can use a pair of sewing needles or pins as well to poke in to the multi wire connector to touch the probes on to as well. Ken you should get seven voltage readings but expect one to be at or less then 3v, as long as it is above 2.8v the battery should be recoverable. My penneth worth said.
Otherwise I'm out as you are in the very capable hands of vfr, to many cooks and all of that.

Hi, Thanks for that info and tip about the needles, I am expecting the probes to be standard when they arrive so will use the needles. many thanks . Ken

 

[ken layhe]

After you have checked the voltages, as suggested by vfr400, it can be possible in some cases to get a battery "recovered", but it will never be quite as good as it should/would have been if it had been correctly cared for.
Bike manufacturers seem to "skip over" supplying such important advice.
I will wait and see what you find out before posting further.
Andy

Thanks for that Andy, Ken

 

[ken layhe]

Hi, vfr400 Well true to form Amazon delivered my test meter before miday.

I have checked the voltages but am afraid they do not look good, I list them below for your perusal and advice.
0.37V 0.72V 1.07V 1.45V 1.89V 2.34V 2.73V

Best regards, Ken

 

[vfr400]

That's completely shagged.

 

[Nealh]

That's completely shagged.

In layman's terms one can't get a better definition then that .

 

[WheezyRider]

Hi, vfr400 Well true to form Amazon delivered my test meter before miday.

I have checked the voltages but am afraid they do not look good, I list them below for your perusal and advice.
0.37V 0.72V 1.07V 1.45V 1.89V 2.34V 2.73V

Best regards, Ken

Looks like the BMS has done a really crappy job at protecting the weakest cells. It should have cut power from the pack when the weakest cells got between 2.8 and 3V.

Basically the pack has had it but...if you have the time and inclination and want to try and salvage something from it read on...otherwise ignore the rest of this message

The cells with a voltage above 1V may be recoverable, I've found that a Poundland 1200mAh power pack is very useful for recovering over discharged cells. Take the charging circuit out of it, disconnect the battery it comes with and connect up the circuit with the "dead" cell. Put it on charge and it will do its best to recover a cell, even if the OCV of the cell is only 1V.

If you are really lucky, you might even be able to get those below 1V back (they haven't gone negative voltage, so there is a very faint hope of recovering them).

However, I doubt you will be able to get them all back. So you are likely to end up with a bunch of ok cells, but not enough for an ebike pack, but you could use them for other things, like powerbanks etc.

If you want to re-cell the pack, you'll need to buy a whole new set, to make sure they are in balance, you don't want to mix old and new cells and cells of different types (eg manufacturer). Also, as a precaution, I would get a better quality BMS to protect the cells.

You have two packs and if the other dies too, you could harvest the best cells from both and make one good pack. It is quite a lot of work though, you will need to cut all the cells out, find the best and then weld them back together again.

 

[vfr400]

It was only 6Ah anyway, so pretty useless. That's about 12 miles range.
If you give our man Jimmy a call or message at www.ebikebatteries.co.uk, he should be able to re-cell it with much higher capacity. It's a 40-cell case, so he should be able to go as high as 7x5, which cold be as high as 17Ah. 15Ah would give about 32 miles range.

 

[vfr400]

Looks like the BMS has done a really crappy job at protecting the weakest cells. It should have cut power from the pack when the weakest cells got between 2.8 and 3V.

Basically the pack has had it but...if you have the time and inclination and want to try and salvage something from it read on...otherwise ignore the rest of this message

The cells with a voltage above 1V may be recoverable, I've found that a Poundland 1200mAh power pack is very useful for recovering over discharged cells. Take the charging circuit out of it, disconnect the battery it comes with and connect up the circuit with the "dead" cell. Put it on charge and it will do its best to recover a cell, even if the OCV of the cell is only 1V.

If you are really lucky, you might even be able to get those below 1V back (they haven't gone negative voltage, so there is a very faint hope of recovering them).

However, I doubt you will be able to get them all back. So you are likely to end up with a bunch of ok cells, but not enough for an ebike pack, but you could use them for other things, like powerbanks etc.

If you want to re-cell the pack, you'll need to buy a whole new set, to make sure they are in balance, you don't want to mix old and new cells and cells of different types (eg manufacturer). Also, as a precaution, I would get a better quality BMS to protect the cells.

You have two packs and if the other dies too, you could harvest the best cells from both and make one good pack. It is quite a lot of work though, you will need to cut all the cells out, find the best and then weld them back together again.

If it were a 15Ah battery, it would be worth looking at, but at 6AH when new, I would say it's not worth recovering. If in perfect nick, it would give a range of about 12 miles. In a compromised and saggy state after recovering, that's going to go right down to a pretty useless level.

 

[WheezyRider]

If it were a 15Ah battery, it would be worth looking at, but at 6AH when new, I would say it's not worth recovering. If in perfect nick, it would give a range of about 12 miles. In a compromised and saggy state after recovering, that's going to go right down to a pretty useless level.

Only 6Ah? Oh no...

Might be nice if some of the cells can be recovered though for things like power packs. I hate seeing the world's WEEE pile getting ever bigger.

 

[vfr400]

Only 6Ah? Oh no...

Might be nice if some of the cells can be recovered though for things like power packs. I hate seeing the world's WEEE pile getting ever bigger.

That's what I was thinking. Take the cells out, recover them, then use them in power banks. You can buy the empty cases on Ebay for next to nothing. Give them to your friends for Xmas:

Power Bank Case for sale | eBay

Find great deals on eBay for Power Bank Case. Shop with confidence.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[ken layhe]

Well guys thanks for all your advice and comments. I'll give Jimmy a call to see about re-celling it. I must say the battery pack does indicate it is a 8Ah but I realise even that would not give much range.

Maybe I'ts time to put my hand in my pocket.

One thing I found was an easy method of connecting the needles to the test probe by the use of a 5amp cable connector.

Once again many thanks for trying to help.

Best regards Ken

 

[vfr400]

Well guys thanks for all your advice and comments. I'll give Jimmy a call to see about re-celling it. I must say the battery pack does indicate it is a 8Ah but I realise even that would not give much range.

Maybe I'ts time to put my hand in my pocket.

One thing I found was an easy method of connecting the needles to the test probe by the use of a 5amp cable connector.

Once again many thanks for trying to help.

Best regards Ken

The cells are marked 2000mAh (2Ah). It looks like they're in groups of three. Can you confirm whether its groups of three or 4? The listing for your bike that I looked at said 5Ah!

 

[WheezyRider]

It was only 6Ah anyway, so pretty useless. That's about 12 miles range.
If you give our man Jimmy a call or message at www.ebikebatteries.co.uk, he should be able to re-cell it with much higher capacity. It's a 40-cell case, so he should be able to go as high as 7x5, which cold be as high as 17Ah. 15Ah would give about 32 miles range.

If it can take 40 cells, how about an upgrade to a 36V 10s 4p pack...that would be interesting

The picture at the top of the thread does say 8Ah.

 

[ken layhe]

The cells are in packs of 4. The idea to increase the number of cells to 40 is interesting and I have yet to contact Jimmy, Does anyone have a telephone number for him?

 

[vfr400]

The cells are in packs of 4. The idea to increase the number of cells to 40 is interesting and I have yet to contact Jimmy, Does anyone have a telephone number for him?

That's 8Ah then, so about 15 miles range when in good nick. To stay at 24v, the cells have to be multiples of 7, so 35 would be the max. The phone number is on the website. Post #12.