Battery conditioning.

I was wondering is there a method of draining the battery without riding it till it gets flat.My front light is run off the battery though it would probably take a while to discharge the battery.I was wondering if this could be an alternative to make it easier to to condition the battery and improve battery memory.

I'd fasten some old car headlamp bulbs in series.

180W @36V gives 5A, so divide your battery pack Ah by that.

Edited January 23, 201313 yr by Scimitar

....only if the battery has a BMS with LVC! Otherwise do not discharge using lights, resistors or whatever...just ride it. However, what 'conditioning' are you trying to do? Lithium batteries do not need it, the only requirement maybe is to reset any inbuilt 'fuel gauge' that some batteries have.

I was told in no uncertain terms to fully charge and run my Kalkhoff battery to flat twice before starting the topping up maintenance approach.... which I did faithfully. Presumably this was to maximize battery life ?

Yes, it was. Lithiums do like a break-in period and without it, they don't perform as well or as long.

Thanks all my understanding was you should run the battery flat and recharge every few months or so to keep the battery at its best and to reset the battery memory.

Thanks all my understanding was you should run the battery flat and recharge every few months or so to keep the battery at its best and to reset the battery memory.

 

This is not necessary with lithium. I'm sure plenty will be along to give you the science but you should just recharge and top up after every use. There is no battery 'memory', that's a hark back to older battery technology.

Yes, it was. Lithiums do like a break-in period and without it, they don't perform as well or as long.

 

Not that I know of! There is no memory effect as with Nicad, capacity will increase a little over the first number of uses, full discharge and re-charge is unnecessary to achieve this. The only need is maybe to reset any in built battery full gauge the BMS may have.

Edited January 23, 201313 yr by NRG

Not that I know of! There is no memory effect as with Nicad, capacity will increase a little over the first number of uses, full discharge and re-charge is unnecessary to achieve this. The only need is maybe to reset any in built battery full gauge the BMS may have.

 

How do you reset an in built battery full gauge,is this done manually and also does the BMS do all the hassling work for you in any case? And if this reset can not be achieved manually,therefore the only way i could think of is to going back to the first stage by running the battery down until it is fully discharged in order for the BMS to chip in and do it's job.

 

Mountainsport.

Not that I know of! There is no memory effect as with Nicad, capacity will increase a little over the first number of uses, full discharge and re-charge is unnecessary to achieve this. The only need is maybe to reset any in built battery full gauge the BMS may have.

I never mentioned memory effect; the memory effect on nicads was mostly rubbish anyway, and owed more to bad handling than any inherent characteristics of nicads themselves.

Lithiums benefit from a break-in period, that's a fact. A simple full charge and flatten (not totally flat, obviously, but to the lower limit of the charged condition) a few times right at the start and the battery will perform as it's designed to.

Sony, Sanyo, Panasonic have all had this on their various lithium batteries I've bought over the years.

How do you reset an in built battery full gauge,is this done manually and also does the BMS do all the hassling work for you in any case? And if this reset can not be achieved manually,therefore the only way i could think of is to going back to the first stage by running the battery down until it is fully discharged in order for the BMS to chip in and do it's job.

 

Mountainsport.

 

Correct, the BMS chip will reset automatically. Fully discharge the battery then fully charge it...done.

I never mentioned memory effect; the memory effect on nicads was mostly rubbish anyway, and owed more to bad handling than any inherent characteristics of nicads themselves.

Lithiums benefit from a break-in period, that's a fact. A simple full charge and flatten (not totally flat, obviously, but to the lower limit of the charged condition) a few times right at the start and the battery will perform as it's designed to.

Sony, Sanyo, Panasonic have all had this on their various lithium batteries I've bought over the years.

 

Memory effect is why you would 'condition' a battery, Lithium does not suffer from this effect. It is not necessary to fully discharge / recharge for the full capacity to be reached on a Lithium battery. The need to do some is some hangover from using nicads.

I've only ever run to totally flat once - and then just to reset the fuel gauge was was misreading

 

I simply turnedthe bike upside down in the kitchen and used some tape to hold the throttle open to around 80%.

 

I then had a beer and waited

There's two types of battery guages: Intelligent ones that need to be initialised by conditioning; non-intelligent ones that work on battery voltage and don't need any conditioning. Most, which includes all the silver fish, frog type and rack batteries on generic Chines bikes, are the non-intelligent type. You shouldn't fully discharge your battery if you can avoid it.

I was told in no uncertain terms to fully charge and run my Kalkhoff battery to flat twice before starting the topping up maintenance approach.... which I did faithfully. Presumably this was to maximize battery life ?

 

That's correct in your case, but only to reset the battery meter to zero since your one is the type that needs that to give both content and capacity readouts accurately in it's two modes. Conditioning once is sufficient, but recommending twice is possibly precautionary to ensure it gets done properly at least once.

 

At any time your content meter appears to lose accuracy after many months of use, or the capacity appears to be low, a re-conditioning then will reset it. However, don't do that in cold weather since any loss of apparent measure then can be solely due to temperature, wait until it gets warmer.

Memory effect is why you would 'condition' a battery, Lithium does not suffer from this effect. It is not necessary to fully discharge / recharge for the full capacity to be reached on a Lithium battery. The need to do some is some hangover from using nicads.

I know there's no memory with lithium - I've just said so.

But you must exercise a lithium cell at the beginning of its life to get the full capacity of it. Simple. Go and argue with Panasonic.

I know there's no memory with lithium - I've just said so.

But you must exercise a lithium cell at the beginning of its life to get the full capacity of it. Simple. Go and argue with Panasonic.

 

Advance who make many of the Wisper and eZee batteries also insist on the need for conditioning with two or three cycles of it. It may be related to the very high content density leading to the possibility of uneven charge content through a cell. We know that the BMS has the function of levelling out the content between cells, but there appears to be occasions when the BMS restarts that function as the cells settle, with some such as Wisper advising a 24 hour initial charge to allow that to happen. I think this latter need may well be due to individual cells not attaining a full charge on the first charge occasion, something which may be alleviated by exercising the cell contents with a full charge cycle from empty to full.

Many ebike batteries have 18650 cells or similar, which are exactly the same as what's in you laptop. Who ever heard of conditioning laptop batteries?

To be quite stringent here, we all can say this and that including myself, initially and seriously we need to take into concideration the "TIME FACTOR",

To be quite stringent here, we all can say this and that including myself, initially and seriously we need to take into concideration the "TIME FACTOR",

 

Sorry had pressed the send buttom by accident:p

 

What i was saying is that whenever we order or purchase a battery,we can never establish on how long the battery has been truely stored and maintained correctly before leaving the shelf and not even knowing it's true integrity. Most people will not know the true state of the battery when it comes to you, after long gone parting with your money.

 

Mountainsport.

Many ebike batteries have 18650 cells or similar, which are exactly the same as what's in you laptop. Who ever heard of conditioning laptop batteries?

 

Exactly, I did check the Panasonic and Sanyo web site about battery care and the PDFs I read made no mention of conditioning cycles, I may have been reading the wrong stuff though. Full capacity is reached without the need to perform full discharge / recharge cycles as I understand it and also IME.

Exactly, I did check the Panasonic and Sanyo web site about battery care and the PDFs I read made no mention of conditioning cycles, I may have been reading the wrong stuff though. Full capacity is reached without the need to perform full discharge / recharge cycles as I understand it and also IME.

 

Panasonic definitely advise the "conditioning" cycles on the battery supplied with their units, but as I posted earlier, for the meter's two functions to be zeroed. They also advice a repeat of that when the meter appears to drift over time. Members who have experienced meter capacity readout drift have successfully corrected it with a full discharge and recharge cycle.

 

The manufacturers who recommend these initial cycles are using larger capacity cells, typically of 5 or 10 Ah, and I agree that small cells like the 18650s used by BMZ in the Kalkhoff batteries definitely don't need any conditioning, though their meter might need the zeroing cycle.

can anyone provide a link to a page that say 'condition lithium batterys because...' ?

can anyone provide a link to a page that say 'condition lithium batterys because...' ?

 

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=condition%20lithium%20batterys%20because

 

 

 

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Let me google that for you

 

 

 

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Very CUTE Dave lots of kisses for that one.

 

Mountainsport.