Battery charger options

[aaannndddyyy]

Having 4 battery chargers, NiCd36v,NiMh24v,NiMh36v,Li-pol37v and seeing the number of posts about defective chargers on the forum at the moment, I decided to look and see if there were any alternatives to the chargers supplied with the electric bikes, there are a couple that can handle upto 30-cell packs, all the battery types and are able to discharge as well as charge. Priced at 99.99.
Graupneto Ultramat 30 and the Schulze Chamaleon isl -330d

Skyline Models Limited Chargers / Balancers

 

[flecc]

Sorry Andy, I can't recommend using this on NiMh batteries though.

There is no temperature charge control and it could wreck a pack.

NiMh chargers need a three wire connection system with a cut-off circuit operating on the value of the thermistor that each bike battery is fitted with.

A two wire system like this can only operate on voltage cutout, which can vary wildly from charge to charge, anything between being short on charge to overcharge and cell destruction.

Temperature sensing is essential for a guarantee of decent battery life.

It's also rather expensive. I'm currently researching a suitable discharging charger for the eZee NiMh battery and hope to have an answer for that. It's important to realise that each NiMh battery type has a particular value thermistor, so any old charger won't do. It has to match.
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[aaannndddyyy]

Using many different battery chemistries and different size packs, which I have accumulated over the past year. I decided to go against Flecc`s advice and buy a Graupner Ultra Duo Plus 30 which can charge NiCd/NiMH/Li-Io/LiMn cells and lead acid batteries.
In the time I have owned the charger it has worked faultlessly, Cut-off for NiCad and NiMH cells is by the “Delta Peak" method which can be adjusted, by setting mine at 5mV it works well cutting the power at between 1.45 and 1.5 volts per cell, there’s also a timer as an extra safety.
The two line LCD screen simultaneously displays all relevant parameters, including charge current, charge time, capacity, battery voltage, ect. There`s Variable battery balancing programs with variable cycle interval (up to 10 times), charge current, discharge current, separate capacity value displays for each cycle (even after completion) ideal for conditioning new batteries or in my case checking s/h for capacity, It`s mainly used in the house off a P.S.U (power supply unit), I converted an old pc p.s.u by using the 12 volt 18 amp rail, but can be used by connecting to a car or caravan battery. This is perfect for camping holidays and the like when you’re away from the national power grid, It`s a great little charger that I wouldn’t be without.
ImageShack - Hosting :: ebikeandstuff027gs4.jpg

 

[flecc]

I wouldn't disagree with that aaannndddyyy, being adjustable that's clearly got a satisfactory charge termination, but there are very few like that, hence my caution before.

Chargers can be quite cheap, but NiMh batteries are too expensive these days to risk if there's any doubt.

A year ago I never thought I'd say it, but I'm a lithium only rider now.
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[jac]

shock horror lithium.

I would add smile but cant find them

 

[flecc]

shock horror lithium.

I would add smile but cant find them

I didn't say any old lithium though.
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[fishingpaul]

Is this what you have been testing then.

 

[RobNYC]

A year ago I never thought I'd say it, but I'm a lithium only rider now.
.

Why is that Flecc?

 

[flecc]

The newest generation batteries are superb, whether from Sanyo or two of the Chinese manufacturers. I can't give more details of who the latter two are at present for reasons of commercial confidence, but will hint that one of them was one of the worst formerly.

It's early days to speak of length of life, though the Sanyo ones already have a good long term record and one of the Chinese prototypes has been working hard for a long time now.

Current delivery on one of them tested is well above previous capabilities, voltage drop under high load never intruding, no matter how brutal the treatment. I'll be buying eZee's latest Sanyo 10 Ah one for my two bikes later this year, but hope to get hold of a 13 Ah one from one of those Chinese makes some time later if eZee ever buy them for their bikes.
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[PinkFloyd]

I agree with Flecc, the new Sanyo and new Ph****n batteries are absolutely superb and seem to go on forever compared to the older ones. I had a problem with a dodgy battery charger (High power) and a new one arrived yesterday...... It charged the Sanyo battery but wouldn't kick in with the Phylions.... after much head scratching I popped the hood on the phylions and noticed there's a 5amp Q-blade auto fuse inside..... had a look and, yup, they were blown on both Phylion batteries..... I can only assume the defective charger sent way more than 5amps into the batteries and BINGO! the fuses went.....

Replaced the 5amp Q-Blade fuse in both Phylions and, hey presto, they're taking a charge from the new battery charger so I'm a pretty happy bunny today I can tell you! At one point last night I was all ready to throw the bike, the batteries, the charger and myself out the friggin' window!

The new Sanyo battery is absolutely phenomenal on hills.... it NEVER goes into amber or red and the range is MUCH better than the old Phylion that came supplied with the bike.... I haven't really logged the range but will do now I have a working battery charger again Big thanks to Wai Won Ching, superb service indeed!!

 

[RobNYC]

So the battery for my Quando II says

Phylion Battery
Hi-Energy Battery
XH370-10J
DC37.0 V

Anything you can share with me about this battery?

 

[flecc]

I can't be certain from that Rob, but can you tell me the date when you bought the battery?

I assume you got it from Nycewheels.
.

 

[RobNYC]

yup.... nycewheels... got it April 1, 2008. wondering if i should call them up and ask them for more info about it but not sure what to ask.

 

[flecc]

Since only small stocks are held to avoid deterioration in storage, that will be at least the later 10 Ah Li-ion made by Phylion which is very much better than the earlier ones from mid 2007 and before. I think the new Sanyo made one will be superior, but it's too early to tell exactly how long each of these types last.

The improvements in the chemistry are continuous as soon as they become available and are proved. A bit like computers and digital cameras, when you buy one it's out of date by the time you've unpacked it! That's probably why the model labels only indicate the construction rather than the chemistry, the latter codes being marked on the cells.

If you can tell me the serial number with prefix below that model number, it has an alphabetical prefix and a very long number beginning with 1, I will be able to tell you more though.
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[PinkFloyd]

Flecc,

That dog of a battery that came with the bike dates back to 2006..... in your opinion do you think it's good practice to ship a bike with a battery that has been sitting on a shelf for, possibly, more than two years?

It's pretty much by the by now anyway as Ezee have sent me a free replacement Phylion (along with the Sanyo) which was made this year but it still pees me off when I think that a certain outfit knowingly sent me a lemon and was quite happy to take my money..........

That's three batteries I have now.... 1 lemon and two good 'uns.... would you rotate them or would you tend to use one of them till it's as flat as a pancake and store the others for a rainy day? If storing I assume you would keep the stored ones in a fully charged state?

 

[flecc]

It's never worth storing Li-ions, since they constantly age whether used or not, and I'm not surprised that 2006 battery was dud at receipt.

In your position now I'd write off the lemon and just use the two good ones to enjoy their fullest performance from new.
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[RobNYC]

If you can tell me the serial number with prefix below that model number, it has an alphabetical prefix and a very long number beginning with 1, I will be able to tell you more though.
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JGJHBF100031

Thanks, Flecc. If you ever make it to NYC, you are welcome to tool around town on my Quando II.

 

[flecc]

Hi Rob. That was from a Phylion manufactured batch supplied from eZee around January this year, but the date of manufacture may be a bit earlier, and should perform quite well, though as said, not up to to standard of the latest but more expensive Sanyo one.

One member has another from that same batch, theirs is 10057, (New edit inserted). I've just heard today that their 10057 is playing up, so it's not certain how yours will last.

I've found them extremely variable even when from the same batch. My original two were sister batteries from the same batch, one very quickly failed, while the other went on to three times it's life, still not very long though. Personally I'm relieved the new generation batteries like the Sanyo are so good now.

Thanks for the Quando ride offer, but I'm unlikely to get over there any time. I keep telling my sister who lives over there that she has to visit me!
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[faster]

Have just been catching up on the forums after not visiting for 6 months, and was just about to start trying to source a NiMH replacement for my early 2007 Torq. But Flecc has managed to convince me to to stick with Li. So does anyone know where can I get a Sanyo Li pack for the Torq (ideally without having to wait)? I am in the UK, but don't care where it ships from.

 

[RobNYC]

One member has another from that same batch, theirs is 10057, (New edit inserted). I've just heard today that their 10057 is playing up, so it's not certain how yours will last.

What does "playing up" mean?