Bafang right motor?

[biky]

With 250W motor, you can get up to 20mph derestricted, 350W up to 22mph, 500W up to 24mph. You can run 36V battery up to 500W.
for fun bikes, it should be the 48V BPM CST motor. Total motor + battery about 8-9kgs.
But if you want 30-40mph, even on flat roads, you need 1,000 to 2,000W DD motor and a 72V battery.
Make a shopping list from bmsbattery.com website, post it here, members will tell you if it's right and where to get it. You should buy the kit at one place to save on transport cost.

OK I went to the site and look and I think that these wuld be the right pieces to buy though I couldn't find a throttle etc, I did wonder about the controller saying 1000w but that was the max they had

http://www.bmsbattery.com/packs/531-48v-10ah-38120-lifepo4-battery-16-cells-ebike-battery-pack.html

http://www.bmsbattery.com/controller/607-s06-250w-imitation-torque-square-wave-controller.html

I also read that on stronger motors it is important to buy torque arms? I am not sure if these would fit my bike exactly or why they are needed, I assume to reduce stress on the bike.
http://www.bmsbattery.com/36v/450-a-pair-of-ebike-torque-arm.html

How come you advise a US site? P+P would be a fair bit.

 

[biky]

Is there in the UK a regulation for small motorbikes (like the 49cc ones), with a license up to 45km/h (it would be something like 30mph)? In Spain, there is such a regulation (apart from another one for 125cc motorbikes, and two other licenses for bigger motorbikes).

Could one consider this regulation similar to the S regulation in Germany (I believe it is for e-bikes also up to 45km/h)? Or in other words, could one build a bike with a CST at 48V, and try and legalize it as a small motorbike, allowing the bike to run at 45km/h?

Yo live in Spain? Yes there is, theoretically but you might be having to pay quite a bit for getting it checked for roadworthiness + signals, lights, plate etc. But I would say you could if you wanted.

 

[biky]

Would it matter placing an order for the miscellaneous parts on ebay? To save some money to put towards the motor and battery.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

BMSattery are Chinese,not American. They and Greenike kit are just about the cheapest supplier of all your ebike bits. Why would you want to buy stuff on Ebay when it's so much more expensive than BMSB. Get allyour stuff in one order to save shipping.

 

[Arbol]

Yo live in Spain? Yes there is, theoretically but you might be having to pay quite a bit for getting it checked for roadworthiness + signals, lights, plate etc. But I would say you could if you wanted.

Yes, I live in Barcelona.

Isn't there an equivalent license in the UK? Do you need the same license to ride a say Vespa 49cc than a Vespa 125cc?

In Spain, there are two different licenses. The first one is up to 4kW and 45km/h max speed. From 15 years old onward. The second one, for 125cc, is up to 11kW and unlimited speed.

I thought the issue with licenses was the same in all Europe.

I agree for an individual like me it would make no sense to go for the full registration process. But for a company building bikes, maybe it could make sense: put a cheap BPM 48V / 9C / MAC / whatever with a strong battery and controller, and you already have a vehicle up to 4kW and 45km/h max speed.

In fact, the issue with max speed is odd: due to errors, I believe that in the registration process there is a wide margin, up to almost 60km/h. And some people say (I do not know) new mopeds reach 80km/h. People then delimit the vehicles (I would say 99% in Spain are delimited) to reach 80-100km/h, but then they have to pay 60 euros to re-limit (and delimit afterwards again) it or so when they have to go to have their vehicle officially checked every two years.

To summarize, yes, in theory you could have a very strong e-bike (up to 4kW) under this legal framework. I do not know if this would work in the rest of Europe / UK, though.

 

[Arbol]

Interesting it seems it is a European license:

The drivers license category for mopeds across the E.U. now is the AM driver's license. This license is for scooters and mopeds with no more than 50 cc (3.1 cu in), and a maximum speed of 45 km/h (28 mph). E.U. member countries that have not fully implemented the E.U. directive that refers to the moped and other drivers license categories must do so in the next few years, 2013 at the latest. Many member states have already done so.
The "E.U. moped", scooter, moped, or any other type of vehicle that fits into this category, two, three or four wheels, a maximum speed of 45 km/h (28 mph) and obligatory license plate as proof of insurance. Many E.U. countries only require special insurer issued plates, not state issued plates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moped#Individual_countries.2Fregions

Mopeds
Category AM
You can drive 2-wheeled vehicles with a maximum design speed of over 25km/h (15.5mph) but not more than 45km/h (28mph).

https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories

Small-displacement motorcycles (mopeds) with

• a maximum design speed of up to 45 km/h
• fitted with an electric motor or an internal combustion engine with a cubic capacity not exceeding 50 cc or
• a maximum continuous rated power of up to 4 kW in the case of electric motors,
  with or without a sidecar.

http://www.bmvi.de/SharedDocs/EN/Artikel/LA/driving-licence-categories-overview.html?nn=68908

 

[Deleted member 4366]

in the UK, you can get a licence at 16 years old to ride a 50cc restricted motorcycle. The speed limit is 50 km/hr. There's nothing to stop you converting one to electric, but it's almost impossible to get an electric bicycle registered into that class because they don't meet the Construction and Use Regulations.

 

[Arbol]

but it's almost impossible to get an electric bicycle registered into that class because they don't meet the Construction and Use Regulations.

Do you know which is the main issue for failing to comply with those regulations?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

From memory you need something like:

• a manufacturer's plate that shows the power and weight
• the wires have to be protected in trunking
• lights that comply
• mirrors
• indicators
• balls on the end of your brake levers

 

[Arbol]

From memory you need something like:

• a manufacturer's plate that shows the power and weight
• the wires have to be protected in trunking
• lights that comply
• mirrors
• indicators
• balls on the end of your brake levers

Is any of these issues an insurmountable problem? I would not know even how to start, but for a knowledgeable person, these things should be relatively easy to solve, shouldn't they?

 

[trex]

Arbol, I feel a little embarrassed to say this, there are not many technical hurdles to get type approval for electric mopeds, the problem is marketing.
The UK market for electric mopeds is tiny - I reckon about 1000-2000 mopeds a year, electric mopeds are mainly sold on ebay by smallish outfits.

 

[Arbol]

Well, yes, a typical 49cc moped is "uncool". A high power e-bike is "cool", though.

In fact, a proportion of posts in this same forum rely on the idea to get as powerful a motor as possible.

 

[trex]

it may appear like so but most members ride strictly EN15194 legal bikes, only a tiny percentage of the UK market goes for 'off road' bikes - my bike has a 250W 8-Fun BBS01, it's fast enough for me. In fact, I'd rather have a light bike than a more powerful one, except when it's windy.

 

[Arbol]

Fair enough.

But in economics, people say that "supply can create its own demand" (Say's law).

The UK, with Isaac Newton, Adam Smith and Charles Darwin, is a clear proof of that.

I do not know anything (I do not even have an e-bike, yet) but I see many different issues converging: cells are improving all the time, motors / controllers are good and cheap, bike mechanical products are cheap in China ...

I have the feeling that one could start building vehicles that could compete with standard urban vehicles (even 125cc scooters, which are the current winners in Barcelona, there are thousands and thousands of them).

Cities are restricting more and more speed in Europe, electric vehicles are trendy and there are subsidies / ... it just seems a trigger needs to be triggered in order to unleash all the hidden potential (maybe in some places, such as Germany, this has already happened, but not in Spain, yet).

 

[Sacko]

I've built 3 bikes that did roughly; 30mph, 45mph and 56mph. On every bike I had my average was around 21mph; it's not the top speed you want, it's the acceleration you're after.

This was my second build, worth a look at the spec.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/24s-Lipo-+-HT3525-Kraken.14824/#post-182990

 

[biky]

I've built 3 bikes that did roughly; 30mph, 45mph and 56mph. On every bike I had my average was around 21mph; it's not the top speed you want, it's the acceleration you're after.

This was my second build, worth a look at the spec.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/24s-Lipo-+-HT3525-Kraken.14824/#post-182990

That is true to an extent, I like the Crown as it has speed and torque but still having a good top speed is important imo

 

[Sacko]

To a certain degree, bit you won't hold that speed for long.

I've had a Crown, if you are laying out that sort of money get a Cromotor

 

[biky]

I have considered a cromotor tbh what about the other parts? Do they need to be cromotor specific or only the right watts and volts etc?

 

[Sacko]

18fet Lyen controller. 24s 10ah of lipo.

I would look at 18s lipo, Lyen 12 fet and a Crystalyte HT3525.

If you need more speed, got to 24s.