Article: BEBA and BAGB join forces
- Thread starter HelenJ
- Start date
When Mr William Whitlock M.P. put forward his arguments for associating power assisted push bikes with ordinary bikes instead of with low powered mopeds which came under the Road Traffic Act he scared the sh*t out of the ordinary bikers who had ridden on the UK’s roads and footpaths with virtually no control mechanisms over them at all. They could see a danger looming. They knew full well that some people would not adhere to the specifications and would break the Law. The Government knew it also. Some people may think that the Government is just being slow in bringing UK ebike legislation up in line with the rest of Europe but that is not the case. They have been waiting to see just how things pans out and if they think that the numbers of illegal ebikes on the road warrant it they will simply bring them under the Road Traffic Act. No reason to ratify something when there is no reason to do it. And having set a precedent associating ordinary push bikes with power assisted ebikes it would be a perfect opportunity to bring them under the control of the Ministry for Transport as well with testing and number plates et al.
No wonder then that ebikers get nothing but scowls from the lycra clad road crowd, and it’s no wonder that the biking governing bodies have amalgamated, but it is not to promote the ebike genre that is the root cause of this happening but to control it. Self regulation is the key. As competition riders are already displaying small identity plates they have set a precedent. I can see a day when if as an ebike owner you want to use it on the road or on footpaths etc then you would have to take it to a local bike shop and get it ratified as legal. They would then issue a ratification certificate which the biker would then display in a prominent position. It would be easy then for law enforcement agencies to enforce the Law without the Government having to legislate to ensure it
Yours sincerely
Linfitter.
No wonder then that ebikers get nothing but scowls from the lycra clad road crowd, and it’s no wonder that the biking governing bodies have amalgamated, but it is not to promote the ebike genre that is the root cause of this happening but to control it. Self regulation is the key. As competition riders are already displaying small identity plates they have set a precedent. I can see a day when if as an ebike owner you want to use it on the road or on footpaths etc then you would have to take it to a local bike shop and get it ratified as legal. They would then issue a ratification certificate which the biker would then display in a prominent position. It would be easy then for law enforcement agencies to enforce the Law without the Government having to legislate to ensure it
Yours sincerely
Linfitter.
I don't know how you've dreamed up all that Linfitter, but it's all fantasy. E-bikes as with all transport issues is an EU matter, and has been ever since the Treaty of Rome. Once we'd signed up that also applied to us, and the EU construction and use law on powered two wheelers was adopted by the UK parliament on 10th November 2003. That regulation set the precedent for EU law applying to UK e-bikes.
The notion that bicycles will ever be subject to registration and number plating and that e-bikes could be the cause is frankly ludicrous, even more so in an environment where government is trying to promote widespread cycling.
The notion that bicycles will ever be subject to registration and number plating and that e-bikes could be the cause is frankly ludicrous, even more so in an environment where government is trying to promote widespread cycling.
Well Linfitter you put forward a powerful and compelling argument for BAGB and the Government's foul and final solution for the ultimate extermination of ebikers here in the UK. Well done, Pedelecs members the length of the country shall not sleep easy tonight whilst your haunting prophecy curdles in our fragile, frightened minds. We had no idea ordinary bicyclists were so wracked with foreboding of the oncoming whirlwind ebikes would create as we thunder across the caucases and plains of Flanders with good old Blighty in our gothic sights. Ordinary bicyclists are plain speaking fellows but us ebicyclists are a whole different kettle of mettle and will not be put down by the jackbooted, neo-fascist administrators in bowler hats & filofaxes claiming probable terrorist affiliation and real pelican crossing threat. Fear not my paranoid friend, whilst Nigel Farage still rides to the fore on his trusty Thomson Classic(librium) our six year old daughters need have no fear of the DOTp dictacts and the confiscation of their pretty pink, unroadworthy trikes. Haibikers, Urban Movers and Tonarodors of the world unite, they will catch us and take ours at their peril!
What a pile of tosh. I see all the frankly draconian legislation as just a way to put off people buying into what is a brilliant new form of transport. Why? My guess would be lost revenue from reduced petrol/diesel sales. Most things get legislation imposed when problems arise, but e-bikes seemed to have been neutered at inception.
But the legislation is almost identical in the EU and there e-bikes are hugely successful. In the Netherlands 40% of all bike sales income is from e-bikes and they form nearly 1 in 6 of all bike purchases now. Germany isn't far behind that and Denmark is fast catching up after a late start.
The problem in Britain is nothing to do with the legislation. As in most of the USA, it's the people who are the problem, a public who simply don't want to cycle and prefer to drive cars. If the government removed the power and assist speed limits the vast majority still would not cycle on e-bikes.
I wonder if we should go down the road of renationalising public transport and offer subsidised fares to all
and make car ownership a expensive form of transprt compared to public transport which may free up the roads for us poor British cyclist/e-bikers. Then maybe (e)cycle ownership and usage may increase.
Last edited:
I think such measures would make very little difference. We've seen fuel prices skyrocket but still the public will even cut down on food rather than give up their car travel. The nearest to these measures is on London where we have the £10 daily congestion charge to discourage driving, the Oyster card subsidies for public transport and free travel for all up to 16 or over 60 plus free travel to 18 if in full time education. That's boosted both public transport usage and cycling, but still the proportion cycling is very small.
It's not in any way an e-bike problem, it's just a dislike of the idea of cycling and refusal to partake. The British public, like their US cousins, are besotted with the car and won't abandon it. Woe betide any UK government that dares to do anything truly forceful and effective about that, they will instantly become a minority party for a very long time. They know that of course, so they'll continue to pussyfoot around the edges of the notion with propaganda encouragement as the strongest measure.
There's another huge and largely unrecognised problem I've mentioned previously. For the last 25 years of increasing hysteria about child safety, ever increasing numbers of parents have refused to allow their children to cycle, so they've never learnt how to. As a result a surprisingly high proportion of adults have never cycled and certainly won't try to learn now in today's cycling conditions. Never having cycled and loving their car benefits only reinforces the anti-cycling attitude so prevalent in this country.
The government loves the fact that everyone drives.
I changed my job two years back from a place where everyone drove due to its location and no public transport links. To a place where public transport is available and more people get public transport than drive but only a few cycle.
I've got to say in the UK as in the US everywhere is driving distance. I actively seek out and use local amenities where possible, but most have closed due to large 'out/edge of town' stores. My town centre only really has card shops and pound stores so despite living within walking distance I rarely go there.
With regards the speed limit on e-bikes, I find it crazy that you can go as fast as your little legs can propel you, but if you strap a battery then the 4mph/15mph limit applies. Mopeds have a restriction of 30mph which would be closer to an appropriate limit. If they want to enforce anything it should be helmets in my eyes.
I changed my job two years back from a place where everyone drove due to its location and no public transport links. To a place where public transport is available and more people get public transport than drive but only a few cycle.
I've got to say in the UK as in the US everywhere is driving distance. I actively seek out and use local amenities where possible, but most have closed due to large 'out/edge of town' stores. My town centre only really has card shops and pound stores so despite living within walking distance I rarely go there.
With regards the speed limit on e-bikes, I find it crazy that you can go as fast as your little legs can propel you, but if you strap a battery then the 4mph/15mph limit applies. Mopeds have a restriction of 30mph which would be closer to an appropriate limit. If they want to enforce anything it should be helmets in my eyes.
The assist speed limited of 25 kph/15 mph is entirely logical. It emphasises the need over performance factor, but more importantly it's connected to the fact of no rider proficiency testing. Physical fitness, reaction times, eyesight and hearing are broadly connected, we can be reasonably confident that the fit lycra is overall fairly safe at over 15 mph in these respects. The utility riders who the e-bikes are intended for are often going to be elderly with those facilities impaired in many ways. They can often be partially disabled with impairments affecting safety. In the absence of rider testing the safety of the public at large has to take precedence.
Connected with the level at which the assist speed limit is set is the effect that evolution has had on our abilities. A fit normal person can run at up to 18 mph, so evolution has developed our senses and reactions to cope best with speeds up to that. As mentioned though, those senses and reaction times deteriorate with age, so given the target group likely common age profile, the assist speed is set a bit lower. Originally in Britain it was set at 12 mph but this was later raised to 15 mph to give some parity with EU law while still being lower than the optimum for the fully fit.
If you have mobility issues you can get a class 3 mobility scooter. If you want an ebike with lower power get a lower power one. Restricting all ebike to 4mph/15mph because a selection might not be able to handle higher is ridiculous.
Most new /young drivers can't handle high powered cars but there is no limit on them. Oh and they kill people in accidents fairly regularly.
This seems to be a blinkered reply, completely ignoring what I posted. Drivers are tested for competence and in any case, how many young drivers can have high powered cars? Answer, almost none since the insurance costs are prohibitive.
I stand by the logic of the current e-bike limits, and it's a logic shared by 26 of the 27 EU countries who have all rejected the faster German S class of e-bike. In any case that S class carries various bureacratic restrictions. The same EU type law has been adopted by Australia now and the Chinese have announced their intention to introduce it there to solve the very high accident problem with their current 20 mph e-bikes.
With almost a third of the planet agreeing, clearly that standard is well on it's way to becoming a widely adopted world one. Arguing against it is tilting at windmills since there's no prospect of it changing. Nobody is stopping you having a faster e-bike either here or in most of the world, but you have to register, insure and be tested for competence to qualify for the benefit. That's not unreasonable, it applies to the 30 mph moped class which has bicycle-like performance for example.
.
Last edited:
Insurance is prohibitively expensive regardless of power. My insurance premiums fell when I moved to more powerful sports cars with sports packs.
I'm against the fact that their is no regulated faster ebike. Yes you can get a faster one then jump through hoops but I feel the whole industry should be set up - at a faster power ebike limit before introducing such arbitrary limits.
Almost all wanting to go faster than 15mph will just get a 50cc/125cc scooter /moped /motorbike.
But the limits are not arbitrary, they are logically based as I described above.
They are predicated on a need for testing once we go beyond the human limits that evolution has equipped us for, and that testing has to apply to both rider and machine. When only human powered, there is a parity between ability (for speed) and capability (for coping), but that parity disappears once any external power is added.
Where are the tests / test centres / ratified higher power ebikes? Seems if you want to go over 15mph you can as long as you burn dinosaurs. Or have a stupid electric motorbike. You're saying there's a reason for the limit and that's fine I'm saying that they should only bring in laws and regulations if all aspects are covered. Where is my way to go 30 legally on an ebike that's just as easy to accomplish as by two wheel petrol machines
here you go
Electric scooter-60 plate registered,tax until March 2014,8p per charge,perfect for commitment in Thornton Heath, London | Motorbikes & Scooters for Sale | Gumtree.com
there are loads available if you really want to avoid petrol.
Almost 30, you can buy a 28 mph assist S class bike here, from 50cycles for example, or do as others have done and buy from Germany or Switzerland. With the certificate of conformity (which 50cycles supply) you then register and insure it, the bikes they supply already come equipped with the rear number plate bracket. All that is similar to a petrol two wheeler, but there is a snag, you do have to use an approved motorcycle helmet, unwelcome on a pedalled bike. The "inbetween" law that Germany has, allowing higher power and assist speed with cycle helmets isn't approved anywhere else in the EU.
However, even in Germany you may well find things irksome, since S class bikes are not allowed on cyclepaths etc, strictly for road only use, not so good when the route is on a fast A road.
But I'm still puzzled as to why anyone thinks higher e-bike assist speeds are justified. What grounds do you have for saying they should be higher than 15 mph?
The problem is no-one appears to have registered them and from what I understand they would have to be individually type approved. Be great hear of someone who has been through the process.