Argos bike EplusCFX5

[saneagle]

Hi, I took the bike out on the first shopping trip covering at least 4 miles in total on full power all the way with quite a few inclines and t is still showing full battery. Over this run it felt just like the other 2 electric bikes I have which have the suntour torque sensor. When I bought th Raleigh Array about 8 years ago I initially tried some cadence sensor bikes and the unnatural sort of turbo boost when you turned the pedals really put me off them and could see it being an issue at lower speeds with fine control. The hesc system in contrast with its natural ride was a delight and you still got gentle exercise with significant fine tuned assistance if required. The Argos bike has a cadence sensor but feels the same and you have fine control at lower
speeds. Perhaps the lower power battery in combination with advances in e bike technology contribute to this feel but to me it is a sort if sweet spot that has been reached. The other thing I noticed was the motor is effectively silent compared to the Array and the Carrera. The ride is like a Citroën car where the suspension forks soak up urban bumps and the seat is ultra padded. Being used to riding on marathon plus tyres the lower psi tyres that came with the bike probably also contribute to feel. The only mod I made was swapping out the seat post for chrome 60cm one. The original post seemed quite short and for me at about 511 and someone who wants just the tips of my boots which are also large touching the ground when seated the original although rideable was not ideal. It is perfect for the other half though.

It doesn't use any advance in technology. The controller is the crudest you can get. It's just the low power that makes it feel smoother. You have 24v and 12A, which is about as low as you can get on an Ebike, exactly the same as my 36v 8A one. That's about 200w max at the back wheel, which goes down to about 150w when hill climbing.

 

[Nealh]

The cadence sensor bikes you tried gave you a bad impression because they use crappy speed control systems, KT current control systems are far superior and the cadence mode is as refined as the torque sensing bikes.

One reason why we recommend them so much , yes they are about £50 or £60 dearer then the crappy Brainpower ones but the extra £50 odd spent is well worth it.

So many come on here poo pooing cadence systems because they have only tried the speed control bikes.

 

[Vin]

The cadence sensor bikes you tried gave you a bad impression because they use crappy speed control systems, KT current control systems are far superior and the cadence mode is as refined as the torque sensing bikes.

One reason why we recommend them so much , yes they are about £50 or £60 dearer then the crappy Brainpower ones but the extra £50 odd spent is well worth it.

So many come on here poo pooing cadence systems because they have only tried the speed control bikes.

Thanks Saneagle and Nealh. That is good to know. Btw I had to go back to Sainsburys because I forgot the tuna (they do alcacore in glass jars) only to discover they had run out. The battery bars started dropping on the way back and I thought of checking how far it would go making my way to Asda to pick up some bottles of their 50% juice squash. The battery suddenly cut out on the way to Asda. The indicator was initially dropping up hills but then regained the bars on the flat. I think it cut out suddenly when hanging around a bar or 2 so in total it was good for about 10 miles on full power which for local shopping is ok. When I received the bike the manual mentioned the battery would be partially charged but it was completely discharged. It took about 5- 6 hours to charge. I expect it to improve a little as it is charged more times. If I need more range getting another one isn't such an expense and it much lighter and cheaper to buy/ source than the ones used in the Array/ Carrera however those even after 8 years have 3-4 times the range at least but then you are paying 3-4 time the price for one if you can source it. The Array/ Carrera batteries give you a fair warning before cutting out where the indicator on the handlebar display starts flashing slowly then after say 5 odd miles flashing fast in combination with dropping power output significantly (a sort of limp home mode).

 

[Peter.Bridge]

If you needed a bit more range there looked like a 24v 17.5a version of that battery case with branded cells on Ali Express for £160 including delivery (I would send photos and dimensions to the seller to double check)

I just found this on AliExpress:
￡141.99 | Original Ebike Battery 24V 36V 8.8Ah 10Ah 10.4Ah 13Ah 14Ah Rear Rack City Bike Battery with Charger for Compatible Ansmann

Original Ebike Battery 24V 36V 8.8Ah 10Ah 10.4Ah 13Ah 14Ah Rear Rack City Bike Battery with Charger for Compatible Ansmann - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

a.aliexpress.com

 

[saneagle]

If you needed a bit more range there looked like a 24v 17.5a version of that battery case with branded cells on Ali Express for £160 including delivery

It would make more sense to buy a 36v one. It would also make sense to upgrade the controller at the same time.

The bike is fine as it is for a relatively light rider, who doesn't need to travel far. It's also OK for a heavier rider that doesn't encounter steep hills.

My one is now modified with sensible gearing, 50% more power, hydraulic brakes and a decent controller at a cost of about £120. It can handle hills OK, but is limited on range, so OK for shopping and other short rides, but that's about it. It's too cumbersome to fold completely, but it takes no space when you drop the handlebars and fold the pedals. The CFX5 is a 3kg lighter, but still a pain to put in a car boot, and, like most folding ebikes, you wouldn't want to try to take it on a bus.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

It would make more sense to buy a 36v one.

I just wondered if you upgraded a 24v hub motor, say with a "no load" max speed of 18 mph to 36v. That would give a no load max speed of 27 mph. If you take the actual realistic speed range (say 7 mph to 15.5 mph), isn't the motor speed going to be well below it's optimum efficiency (especially at lower speeds) and potentially struggling and overheating up hills at 7 mph ?

 

[saneagle]

I just wondered if you upgraded a 24v hub motor, say with a "no load" max speed of 18 mph to 36v. That would give a no load max speed of 27 mph. If you take the actual realistic speed range (say 7 mph to 15.5 mph), isn't the motor speed going to be well below it's optimum efficiency (especially at lower speeds) and potentially struggling and overheating up hills at 7 mph ?

IVery good point. 've converted several 24v bikes to 36v. They were all much better like that and their owners were very happy. The theory doesn't quite line up with practice. The higher power will keep the speed up on hills, which would get a lot better efficiency. There are a lot of special circumstances where efficiency could go down, but not for a normal rider on normal rides. It's a bit like how when you have a hilly ride, turning up the current to get more power can actually reduce your consumption because you get better efficiency on hills, so your motor runs cooler too.

About 12 years ago, I added a second motor to a bike I had that had a wattmeter attached to measure power, consumption, etc. I was surprised when using both motors instead of one, I used less battery for the trip down Ironbridge Gorge and back. It got me scratching my head a bit until I figured it out something like this. With one motor slogging up the hill at 7.5 mph, efficiency was about 50%, so I was using about 500w to get 250w useful power. With two motors, I was able to go 15 mph at 70% efficiency, so using about 700w to get 500w useful power. Therefore, I was using 40% extra power to get 100% extra speed, and the time I was using the power was only half as much. That's just for explanation. In practice the gain was only about 5% because there must be other factors involved.

What you suggested matters a lot when you do something like put a small high speed motor in say a road bike or similar with large wheels, then spend most of your time slogging up hills slowly. Even at moderate speeds, the controller would be maxing out most of the time, which would overheat it and cause it to cut out. A medium sized motor in a 20" wheel wouldn't suffer from that problem unless the rider is very heavy.

 

[Nealh]

Vin those battery bars give a false idea of battery SOC , they aren't linear in voltage reduction. With two bars your voltage will quite be low and then any voltage sag soon takes the voltage below LVC.
The only true way of cyphering how much is left in the tank is voltage readout or a watt meter to read battery Wh usage.