Are these battery cells suitable for use with my Bafang BBSHD?

[Angus Digital]

Hi, These are some battery cells that I currently plan to use in my battery packs. I have two sets:-

VANON 18650 FP20R 200822 3.6V / THG190063090

THISS 18650HR20R 2020. 11. 30 3.6V

As I understand it, these cells should be suitable for my battery packs because they were intended to be used in high current drain power tools.
I know that there is at least one website I visited a couple of months ago that provides ratings and technical information on many, many 18650 cells but I can't remember which site it was and I've emptied my browsing history since then.
Can anyone direct me to a website that I can use to at least give me the expected performance or specification of these two cells?
please check out the pictures.

 

[guerney]

I confess to knowing little about ebike batteries, but am very interested in following your project - I may someday attempt a massive battery build.

As I understand it, these cells should be suitable for my battery packs because they were intended to be used in high current drain power tools.

Would it make sense for power tool batteries to not have as many dischage cycles, before rapid reduction of capacity, compared to cells intended for ebike use? Might there be some penalty for low cost chemistry and brand?

I know that there is at least one website I visited a couple of months ago that provides ratings and technical information on many, many 18650 cells but I can't remember which site it was and I've emptied my browsing history since then.
Can anyone direct me to a website that I can use to at least give me the expected performance or specification of these two cells?

I've Googled and can't find any information, and I'm usually a good Googler.

 

[Woosh]

Hi, These are some battery cells that I currently plan to use in my battery packs. I have two sets:-

VANON 18650 FP20R 200822 3.6V / THG190063090

THISS 18650HR20R 2020. 11. 30 3.6V

As I understand it, these cells should be suitable for my battery packs because they were intended to be used in high current drain power tools.
I know that there is at least one website I visited a couple of months ago that provides ratings and technical information on many, many 18650 cells but I can't remember which site it was and I've emptied my browsing history since then.
Can anyone direct me to a website that I can use to at least give me the expected performance or specification of these two cells?
please check out the pictures.

18650 20R cells are typical for use in power tools. 2000mAH, 22A maximum discharge current per cell. Suitable for high output to the detriment of longer life. When a brand is unknown, it is usually made in China.
20R cells are not ideal to make high capacity batteries for e-bikes. for that, you want the opposite, low discharge rate and longer life.
The main thing is don't mix them. You need to have cells that are as identical as possible.
I take it that those cells have been pulled, you also need to be mindful of increased risk of fire.

 

[Angus Digital]

18650 20R cells are typical for use in power tools. 2000mAH, 22A maximum discharge current per cell. Suitable for high output to the detriment of longer life. When a brand is unknown, it is usually made in China.
20R cells are not ideal to make high capacity batteries for e-bikes. for that, you want the opposite, low discharge rate and longer life.
The main thing is don't mix them. You need to have cells that are as identical as possible.
I take it that those cells have been pulled, you also need to be mindful of increased risk of fire.

That's why I'm on this forum, to glean advice from those who have more experience than myself. It's not such a disaster for me because I have plenty of gadgets that can use these cells. I was aware that it's not wise to mix cells in the same battery pack for various reasons, that I won't go into here. To say that I've been careful with these and other Li-ion cells is an under-statement, a couple of youtube video's showing 18650's catching fire was enough to convince me that they are not to be mistreated or short circuited. LG, Panasonic and Sony brands seem to be the most popular for self build batteries from what I've seen so far...

 

[soundwave]

if you want a large batt that can pull the amps then id only use new trusted cells.

Sony VTC5A 18650 Battery

Sony VTC5A li-ion 18650 batteries available at Fogstar - the UK's leading battery retailer. All batteries are Tested | Traceable | Quality Products.

www.fogstar.co.uk

Sony VTC5 18650 2600mAh 30A 3.6V Battery

Sony VTC5 18650 2600mAh 30A Battery Model: US18650VTC5 C5, 30A Continuous Discharge18650 3.7V Li-ion Rechargeable, Version: Flat Free case, Energy: 9.36Wh, Power: 110WPlease select tabs option if required for solderingRead more in product details.Test and Review by HKJ.

www.ecoluxshopdirect.co.uk

 

[guerney]

BTW @Angus Digital - Fogstar is @Nealh 's (a very knowledgeable pedelecs.co.uk member) recommended battery cell supplier.

 

[guerney]

That's why I'm on this forum, to glean advice from those who have more experience than myself. It's not such a disaster for me because I have plenty of gadgets that can use these cells. I was aware that it's not wise to mix cells in the same battery pack for various reasons, that I won't go into here. To say that I've been careful with these and other Li-ion cells is an under-statement, a couple of youtube video's showing 18650's catching fire was enough to convince me that they are not to be mistreated or short circuited. LG, Panasonic and Sony brands seem to be the most popular for self build batteries from what I've seen so far...

That'll be a big battery. What bike will you be using it with? It won't be lacking of range.

 

[Angus Digital]

if you want a large batt that can pull the amps then id only use new trusted cells.

Sony VTC5A 18650 Battery

Sony VTC5A li-ion 18650 batteries available at Fogstar - the UK's leading battery retailer. All batteries are Tested | Traceable | Quality Products.

www.fogstar.co.uk

Sony VTC5 18650 2600mAh 30A 3.6V Battery

Sony VTC5 18650 2600mAh 30A Battery Model: US18650VTC5 C5, 30A Continuous Discharge18650 3.7V Li-ion Rechargeable, Version: Flat Free case, Energy: 9.36Wh, Power: 110WPlease select tabs option if required for solderingRead more in product details.Test and Review by HKJ.

www.ecoluxshopdirect.co.uk

It does look as if the Sony VTC5 is the way to go, given the power and discharge rate figures. I have seen some ludicrously low prices for these cells on the more 'popular' websites. I can only assume that these cells are not genuine. I will be sticking to the UK based, tried and trusted suppliers. Thanks for the advice everyone.

I confess to knowing little about ebike batteries, but am very interested in following your project - I may someday attempt a massive battery build.



Would it make sense for power tool batteries to not have as many dischage cycles, before rapid reduction of capacity, compared to cells intended for ebike use? Might there be some penalty for low cost chemistry and brand?



I've Googled and can't find any information, and I'm usually a good Googler.

 

[guerney]

Fogstar's wholesale prices are lower. I'd be interested in seeing photos of your battery build.

fogstar wholesale

 

[Angus Digital]

That'll be a big battery. What sort of motor and bike will you be using it with? It won't be lacking of range.

I will be using a Bafang BBSHD mid-drive motor with a GT Avalanche 3.0 donor mountain bike. I was tempted to go for the ASI BAC855 controller but decided to keep the stock controller and use a motor programming kit instead. I intend to use the bike for commuting to and from work, it's only a nine mile round trip so the range shouldn't be an issue. The project is practically finished, I'm just trying to decide which seat to use. I'm more interested in comfort than performance although the BBSHD is no slow coach.

 

[Angus Digital]

BTW @Angus Digital - Fogstar is @Nealh 's (a very knowledgeable pedelecs.co.uk member) recommended battery cell supplier.

I will be checking out Fogstar.

 

[Angus Digital]

I confess to knowing little about ebike batteries, but am very interested in following your project - I may someday attempt a massive battery build.



Would it make sense for power tool batteries to not have as many dischage cycles, before rapid reduction of capacity, compared to cells intended for ebike use? Might there be some penalty for low cost chemistry and brand?



I've Googled and can't find any information, and I'm usually a good Googler.

It's not looking good is it ?, in terms of using these cells in my battery pack. However, the good news is that I have at least three old power tools that have dead ni-cad cells in. I could always modify the batteries and power the tools with the lithium ion cells I already have and give my old power tools a new lease of life. I've seen many tutorials online of how to do this safely.

 

[guerney]

I will be using a Bafang BBSHD mid-drive motor with a GT Avalanche 3.0 donor mountain bike. I was tempted to go for the ASI BAC855 controller but decided to keep the stock controller and use a motor programming kit instead. I intend to use the bike for commuting to and from work, it's only a nine mile round trip so the range shouldn't be an issue. The project is practically finished, I'm just trying to decide which seat to use. I'm more interested in comfort than performance although the BBSHD is no slow coach.

Have you bought the BBSHD already? Are you sure you don't want something street legal instead? Some of the experts here will only help with legal builds.

 

[guerney]

I was tempted to go for the ASI BAC855 controller but decided to keep the stock controller and use a motor programming kit instead.

The programming cables are easy to break at the connector flex - to strengthen, I used self-adhesive marine 4:1 heat shrink over the connectors either end, over the flex and some of the cable... after I broke one of more of the internal wires, while trying to pull it off the cable connector on the Bafang wiring harness for the display.

 

[Angus Digital]

Have you bought the BBSHD already? Are you sure you don't want something street legal instead? Some of the experts here will only help with legal builds.

I already have the motor and I really don't fancy buying another one. I did get a programming cable in order to limit the power output to comply with the local regulations. As you'll be aware the stock motor is at least 1000 watts. I believe for legal street use the power should not exceed 250 watts and a top speed of 15 mph (in the UK at least).

 

[Angus Digital]

The programming cables are easy to break at the connector flex - to strengthen, I used self-adhesive marine 4:1 heat shrink over the connectors either end, over the flex and some of the cable... after I broke one of more of the internal wires, while trying to pull it off the cable connector on the Bafang wiring harness for the display.

This is some very useful information as I have not yet made my maiden ride yet. Thank you.

 

[guerney]

I already have the motor and I really don't fancy buying another one. I did get a programming cable in order to limit the power output to comply with the local regulations. As you'll be aware the stock motor is at least 1000 watts. I believe for legal street use the power should not exceed 250 watts and a top speed of 15 mph (in the UK at least).

I'm sorry to tell you this, but it's only UK legal if the motor is rated by the manufacturer at 250W or less - it's engraved on the bottom of my BBS01B, which I'll point out to the Police if I'm ever stopped (which hasn't yet happened). If you're involved in an accident with a 1000W rated motor, you're open to being sued for big bucks by the other party or their insurance company, even if your BBSHD is limited to 15.5mph. Plus the courts will throw the book at you. There are a lot of threads about this all over the forum.

Pedelec Law - The Details

I think many of you will be aware of what a complex subject electric assist bicycle law is and pitfalls in trying to second guess it. As a result, and with my knowledge of it since joining the trade 70 years ago, I'm often called upon in here to give answers on the subject. But of course I...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

 

[Angus Digital]

I'm sorry to tell you this, but it's only UK legal if the motor is rated by the manufacturer at 250W or less - it's engraved on the bottom of my BBS01B, which I'll point out to the Police if I'm ever stopped (which hasn't yet happened). If you're involved in an accident with a 1000W rated motor, you're open to being sued for big bucks by the other party or their insurance company, even if your BBSHD is limited to 15.5mph. Plus the courts will throw the book at you. There are a lot of threads about this all over the forum.

Pedelec Law - The Details

I think many of you will be aware of what a complex subject electric assist bicycle law is and pitfalls in trying to second guess it. As a result, and with my knowledge of it since joining the trade 70 years ago, I'm often called upon in here to give answers on the subject. But of course I...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

I did take a look at the pedelecs law section. It's a minefield out there when it comes to uk laws and regulations concerning e-bikes.
It appears that I basically have an electrically powered motorbike, which means I need mirrors, indicators, headlight, crash helmet (I already have the crash helmet) and a plethora of other requirements in order to become street legal. However, I'm not put off. I've come too far now and I'm looking forward to eventually taking my e-bike on the road. (legally)

 

[Nealh]

Have a look at the moli p28a's cheaper then the sony and out performs vtc5a.
The original moli p26a was equal to the vtc5a and even out did it near the end of the discharge . P26a even though it has been only 5 years or so since it's introduction has now been replaced by the 28a.

M ooch n ECF forum now rates the moli's as a top to go for cell and one of the best cells to recommend. Every one has their fav's whether branded well known or good china branded cells.
Sinowatt, eve , lishen and others all have pretty good reveiws for there price and quality.

 

[guerney]

I intend to use the bike for commuting to and from work, it's only a nine mile round trip so the range shouldn't be an issue.

That's quite a short commute - why make such a big battery?