Are good times just around the corner? It seems they may be!

Damian.Doherty

Pedelecer
Jun 27, 2017
202
111
47
Derry, Ireland
Okay, I hear all your points, and maybe the phrase "I wish" is a little strong! If I had a wish I certainly wouldn't waste it on legislating bicycle helmets.

When I say I think of helmets like I think of seat belts I mean that although I wear a seat belt every time I get in my car I hope never to have to rely on its safety giving and lifesaving properties.

Nor do I feel an extra sense of safety therefore persuading me to drive closer to the limits.

I dunno, I guess I also have the mindset of the person who is not surprised when a dog finally does bite someone.

You've all heard stories like "That dog has never so much as barked at someone...until the day they finally sunk there teeth into the postman's leg"

A dog biting someone is maybe a 1 in a 1000 occurrence, but if the dog is wearing a muzzle or on a tight leash its a 0 in a 1000 occurrence.

Same goes for seat-belt and bike helmet logic. I may be lucky enough to only ever fall off my bike once in the next 30 years, but I can guarantee you I will be wearing a helmet when it happens!

(I apologise to all the dog lovers, it was the first analogy that came to mind, if the dog reference upsets you then please substitute dog for.....bear!)
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,262
30,649
Same goes for seat-belt and bike helmet logic. I may be lucky enough to only ever fall off my bike once in the next 30 years, but I can guarantee you I will be wearing a helmet when it happens!
Risks can be hugely exaggerated for those of us who are not accident prone.

I've had 22 years of motorcycling without a helmet pre the 1973 compulsion law. Nearly 70 years of cycling never wearing a helmet of any kind. And 29 years of driving all manner of vehicles without a seat belt, plus 34 years with seat belts.

There isn't a single mark on me from any of that, and never has been. Considering all the hassle and expense I'd have suffered by using helmets etc over all those years, taking the risk has been well worth while.
.
 
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Damian.Doherty

Pedelecer
Jun 27, 2017
202
111
47
Derry, Ireland
I hear you Flecc, there are exceptions to every rule and I'm happy to hear that you have had 70 years of incident free driving and biking.....but

.....I'm sure you can also agree that IF

(and the whole argument hangs on this "if")

you fall off your bike you are better to be wearing a helmet than not wearing one?

These last two posts of mine have been the most long winded way anyone has ever tried to say:

"Hope for the best but prepare for the worst!"
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,262
30,649
.....I'm sure you can also agree that IF

(and the whole argument hangs on this "if")

you fall off your bike you are better to be wearing a helmet than not wearing one?
Not completely agree, simply because my safety conciousness means appropriate speeds. Falling off a bike at moderate speeds very rarely involves head contact, hands, arms, legs etc could often suffer, but a helmet doesn't help them of course.

Riding at 20 mph or more in circumstances where one might suddenly be brought to a stop can result in head first over the bars. But I don't indulge in that, my higher bike speeds are where the possibility of being brought to an abrupt stop is almost non-existent, so I've never been over the bars. All my flying has been in planes.
.
 

mike killay

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 17, 2011
3,012
1,629
Not completely agree, simply because my safety conciousness means appropriate speeds. Falling off a bike at moderate speeds very rarely involves head contact, hands, arms, legs etc could often suffer, but a helmet doesn't help them of course.

Riding at 20 mph or more in circumstances where one might suddenly be brought to a stop can result in head first over the bars. But I don't indulge in that, my higher bike speeds are where the possibility of being brought to an abrupt stop is almost non-existent, so I've never been over the bars. All my flying has been in planes.
.
remember 'Ritual, Satanic, sexual abuse of children?'
An absolutely disgusting example of a moral panic brought about by screwpot Evangelical fundamental American Christians.
It was an example of a moral panic and right now the Western World is going through another with all the Trump hatred etc.
We have Social Justice Warriors bringing people down over something they said 15 years ago, we have spent millions on investigating the actions of dead people, Saville and Heath spring to mind, for what end?
We cannot prosecute them, but somehow the popular narrative, perhaps driven by an avaricious Press drives the madness on.
The fact is that walking a mile has much the same danger as cycling a mile, but somewhere, a person with an obvious personality problem has decreed that compulsory cycle helmets is a GOOD IDEA, and sadly, many lesser folks cling to this madness.
Remember the death of Diana?
A few might ask, which Diana? but you are supposed to know that it is the Saint Diana of Windsor.
The ridiculous outpouring of artificial grief from people who never knew or met her was staggering. The outright bullying of those who declined to mark the day of her funeral and wanted to play football etc. was absolutely disgusting.
Moral panic.
 
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wheeler

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 4, 2016
893
1,776
Scotland
remember 'Ritual, Satanic, sexual abuse of children?'
An absolutely disgusting example of a moral panic brought about by screwpot Evangelical fundamental American Christians.
It was an example of a moral panic and right now the Western World is going through another with all the Trump hatred etc.
We have Social Justice Warriors bringing people down over something they said 15 years ago, we have spent millions on investigating the actions of dead people, Saville and Heath spring to mind, for what end?
We cannot prosecute them, but somehow the popular narrative, perhaps driven by an avaricious Press drives the madness on.
The fact is that walking a mile has much the same danger as cycling a mile, but somewhere, a person with an obvious personality problem has decreed that compulsory cycle helmets is a GOOD IDEA, and sadly, many lesser folks cling to this madness.
Remember the death of Diana?
A few might ask, which Diana? but you are supposed to know that it is the Saint Diana of Windsor.
The ridiculous outpouring of artificial grief from people who never knew or met her was staggering. The outright bullying of those who declined to mark the day of her funeral and wanted to play football etc. was absolutely disgusting.
Moral panic.
Interesting that you mention Saville and Diana in the same post. If she had followed his advice to "clunk click every trip" she would most likely be here today.

wheeler
 
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mike killay

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 17, 2011
3,012
1,629
Interesting that you mention Saville and Diana in the same post. If she had followed his advice to "clunk click every trip" she would most likely be here today.

wheeler
I think that you are guessing. You have no way of knowing whether your statement is true.,unless you have access to all the data regarding the crashed car and the actual injuries suffered .
Remember, a high speed crash can kill a person without any external injuries, just all the internal organs ruptured and displaced.
But your statement is conducive to a moral panic, without any understanding at all you have chosen to offer an unqualified opinion, which no doubt will be seized upon by others and repeated.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,262
30,649
Remember, a high speed crash can kill a person without any external injuries, just all the internal organs ruptured and displaced.
The Governments own Roads Research Laboratory has shown that at about 26 mph a seat belt kills through the damage to the internal organs. That is 26 mph at the body, not a crash impact speed at the front of the vehicle which can be very much higher.
.
 
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wheeler

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 4, 2016
893
1,776
Scotland
I think that you are guessing. You have no way of knowing whether your statement is true.,unless you have access to all the data regarding the crashed car and the actual injuries suffered .
Remember, a high speed crash can kill a person without any external injuries, just all the internal organs ruptured and displaced.
But your statement is conducive to a moral panic, without any understanding at all you have chosen to offer an unqualified opinion, which no doubt will be seized upon by others and repeated.
Of course I'm guessing, I can't predict what will happen to someone over a 30 year period.

wheeler
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,845
5,786
The European Union
Every single rider who has died in the Tour de France and other road races since helmets were obligatory was wearing a helmet...
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,845
5,786
The European Union
Helmets save lives on motorcycles so the general wish is that they will save lives on bicycles too. Not the same helmets, not the same speeds, not the same accidents...

I have two bicycle helmets. Both have passed the testing and have the official stamp of approval. One I would imagine might prevent injury the other is a joke. The price difference is ten fold. Guess which one I wear on my trike where I do not yet know how to fall off?
 

ttxela

Pedelecer
Jan 3, 2017
118
66
53
Cambridgeshire
Of course I'm guessing, I can't predict what will happen to someone over a 30 year period.

wheeler
It's a bit off topic but the thing I always wonder about is what the public response would have been if things had gone differently. She was in a car travelling way over the speed limit to get away from the attention of journalists.

What if, for example, instead of crashing into the concrete structure of the tunnel her car had wiped out a young family in their car coming the other way, or a coach load of children on a school trip, where would the sympathy lie then? Especially if she had survived or perhaps been unharmed. Would the taking of such risks to avoid being photographed be as acceptable?
 

Damian.Doherty

Pedelecer
Jun 27, 2017
202
111
47
Derry, Ireland
remember 'Ritual, Satanic, sexual abuse of children?'
An absolutely disgusting example of a moral panic brought about by screwpot Evangelical fundamental American Christians.
It was an example of a moral panic and right now the Western World is going through another with all the Trump hatred etc.
We have Social Justice Warriors bringing people down over something they said 15 years ago, we have spent millions on investigating the actions of dead people, Saville and Heath spring to mind, for what end?
We cannot prosecute them, but somehow the popular narrative, perhaps driven by an avaricious Press drives the madness on.
The fact is that walking a mile has much the same danger as cycling a mile, but somewhere, a person with an obvious personality problem has decreed that compulsory cycle helmets is a GOOD IDEA, and sadly, many lesser folks cling to this madness.
Remember the death of Diana?
A few might ask, which Diana? but you are supposed to know that it is the Saint Diana of Windsor.
The ridiculous outpouring of artificial grief from people who never knew or met her was staggering. The outright bullying of those who declined to mark the day of her funeral and wanted to play football etc. was absolutely disgusting.
Moral panic.
Wow.....well that escalated quickly!
 
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Damian.Doherty

Pedelecer
Jun 27, 2017
202
111
47
Derry, Ireland
I would like to admit of my own free will that when I said "I wish they would make it compulsory"...that I was wrong!

I made an off the cuff remarked based on no more data than me thinking, if I happen to fall off and bang my head, I'd rather be wearing a helmet than not wearing one. That was it.

I've since taken all your comments on board, and read this article:

http://www.cyclist.co.uk/in-depth/1365/is-it-safer-to-wear-a-helmet

And I have to say, there is a lot more to this debate than I first realised! :)
 

BazP

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 8, 2017
358
174
74
Sheffield
Well I have worn a helmet for years but the only time it has saved me from injury was when I was stationary. Stood chatting at one of those cycle gates with one foot clipped in when I overbalanced. My head took quite a knock on the iron gate, or rather the helmet did. So, speed is out of the equation.
I also ride in forests and trail makers have a habit of leaving short tree stumps sticking out to catch the pedals. I would not like my head being impaled in these. Most injuries that happen on a bike are not life threatening but a small knock to the head can have dire consequences and it will only happen once.
 
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