Are ebikes worth the price tag?

[trex]

I am sorry you are wrong YD.
Compared to my Giant costing me a little more than £300, yes, the frame of the Giant is better and that's about it. And the Giant was on special offers.
The Karoo has better brakes, Sram Avid discs front and rear against Giant's calipers, Karoo has puncture resistant CST Traveller tyres, the crankset on the Karoo is hell a lot better than the one that comes with my Giant, and so is the bottom bracket on the Karoo, proper GXP bottom bracket against the Giant square tapered. Even the pedals and the handlebars on the Karoo are better than those on my Giant. I can go on, but you already know where I am coming from.

 

[Yamdude]

I am sorry you are wrong YD.
Compared to my Giant costing me a little more than £300, yes, the frame of the Giant is better and that's about it. And the Giant was on special offers.
The Karoo has better brakes, Sram Avid discs front and rear against Giant's calipers front and puncture resistant tyres, the crankset on the Karoo is hell a lot better than the one that comes with my Giant, and so is the bottom bracket on the Karoo, proper GXP bottom bracket against the Giant square tapered. Even the pedals and the handlebars on the Karoo are better than those on my Giant. I can go on, but you already know where I am coming from.

Oh perleeze...... Its a cheap ass Chinese bike, with a cheap ass hub motor kit on it. I'm sure Woosh and your association are making a very good profit on it.
So stop the salesmans BS and save it for the mug punters.

 

[trex]

YD, please set aside your prejudices for a moment before jumping to conclusion. There are important components that are the foundation of reliability and performance and there is esthetics. The motor is Bafang, not a cheap brand. The controller is Lishui, again, the most reliable brand out there, the battery has samsung cells, the same you find in German bikes. That's for the electrics. For mechanical components, the bottom bracket, crankset, chain and rear cluster are all important. you may find a £300 bikes that look pretty but I challenge you to find me a £400 bike that has an 8-speed cassette, a GXP bottom bracket and an Ounce 245A crankset and Sram discs or similar quality.

 

[Yamdude]

YD, please set aside your prejudices for a moment before jumping to conclusion. There are important components that are the foundation of reliability and performance and there is esthetics. The motor is Bafang, not a cheap brand. The controller is Lishui, again, the most reliable brand out there, the battery has samsung cells, the same you find in German bikes. That's for the electrics. For mechanical components, the bottom bracket, crankset, chain and rear cluster are all important. you may find a £300 bikes that look pretty but I challenge you to find me a £400 bike that has an 8-speed cassette, a GXP bottom bracket and an Ounce 245A crankset and Sram discs or similar quality.

Just off the top of my head..... I could go in Halfords and buy a Voodoo Marasa, with hydraulic brakes and 9 speed cassette...... at £240.
Its leagues above your Karoo without the kit added to it.

And thats without spending a few days looking for deals all over the net.

 

[trex]

let's check out your choice. The brakes on the Marasa are better but not more expensive. the rest are either equal or inferior: the BB is square tapered, crankset is a cheap stamp job, tyres are cheap, hubs are cheap. In fact, you could tell by the weight, the Marasa is heavier than the Karoo minus the electrics. Lastly, it's on special offers, its normal price is £350.
I could not find a bike with GXP or Hollowtech BB and forged crankset for less than £400 even on special offers.

 

[soundwave]

i could build the hole thing with a cheap carbon frame and forks cheaper and with better parts tbh.

but if you are a dealer then you make more prophet in a 15 quid alu frame than a 150 quid carbon one from the same place.

any one can build one of these things and get a much better bike for there money if done diy but some just want the buy it ready made option with warranty.

its why this forum is here so if they want to pay for a bike with warranty from a dealer then that is what the extra is for as cheap parts will fail fast and then its up to the dealer to sort it out.

 

[Yamdude]

let's check out your choice. The brakes on the Marasa are better but not more expensive. the rest are either equal or inferior: the BB is square tapered, crankset is a cheap stamp job, tyres are cheap, hubs are cheap. In fact, you could tell by the weight, the Marasa is heavier than the Karoo minus the electrics. Lastly, it's on special offers, its normal price is £350.
I could not find a bike with GXP or Hollowtech BB and forged crankset for less than £400 even on special offers.

Oh dear, you're like a boxer on the ropes desperately trying to stay in the ring..
How about this with Nexus 8 speed hub at only 11.2 kilos

http://www.rutlandcycling.com/369669/products/marin-fairfax-sc2-ig-2016-hybrid-bike-black.aspx?awc=3395_1470614449_c9380e816adaa96cc623b62a1715eec8&referrer=affiliatewindow

 

[Yamdude]

Now, i dont mind dealers making a profit....... of course they're going to make a profit, they would last in business if they didn't.
But stop this pathetic hard done by crap,' we're cutting our mark up to to the bone' BS
Only idiots believe that rubbish.

 

[trex]

YD, you have a fixed idea that anything put on a Chinese ebike is bound to be cheap. Although this is often seen, but not always. That's why I suggested that you set aside prejudices. Take German made CD motors. They have isis bottom bracket. That's no match for GXP, Hollotech and similar for durability and feel. You do know this. It's just an example to illustrate my point. Another point is cheap forks. Some people automatically assume that Chinese bikes have c**p forks. Tell that to DM @ Amps.

 

[trex]

Oh dear, you're like a boxer on the ropes desperately trying to stay in the ring..
How about this with Nexus 8 speed hub at only 11.2 kilos

http://www.rutlandcycling.com/369669/products/marin-fairfax-sc2-ig-2016-hybrid-bike-black.aspx?awc=3395_1470614449_c9380e816adaa96cc623b62a1715eec8&referrer=affiliatewindow

that Marin is a nice example but I think it's end of line, on special offers normal price is £499 though. Still not better than the Karoo overall.

 

[Yamdude]

YD, you have a fixed idea that anything put on a Chinese ebike is bound to be cheap. Although this is often seen, but not always. That's why I suggested that you set aside prejudices. Take German made CD motors. They have isis bottom bracket. That's no match for GXP, Hollotech and similar for durability and feel. You do know this. It's just an example to illustrate my point. Another point is cheap forks. Some people automatically assume that Chinese bikes have c**p forks. Tell that to DM @ Amps.

You can put certain specs of components on your frames, like Shimano ect, and these specs will always be on price points of bikes..... But, and its a big BUT, dealers like yourself will highlight these components but you'll always fail to mention the cheap as chips Chinese frames they're added to.
Plus of course, your Chinese suppliers will have done a deal to have these components at a cost to keep their prices to you, the dealer, even cheaper.
As i said earlier, save it for the punters.

 

[trex]

But stop this pathetic hard done by crap,' we're cutting our mark up to to the bone' BS
Only idiots believe that rubbish.

Nobody said anything of the sort on this thread. Of course, if you don't make enough profit, you'll fall off the cliff.

 

[Yamdude]

Nobody said anything of the sort on this thread. Of course, if you don't make enough profit, you'll fall off the cliff.

Oh yes they have...... i've seen dealers say 'No one makes much of money in this business' and even yourself saying there's only about £50 profit in the G Tech.
I dont believe any of it.

 

[trex]

You can put certain specs of components on your frames, like Shimano ect, and these specs will always be on price points of bikes..... But, and its a big BUT, dealers like yourself will highlight these components but you'll always fail to mention the cheap as chips Chinese frames they're added to.
Plus of course, your Chinese suppliers will have done a deal to have these components at a cost to keep their prices to you, the dealer, even cheaper.
As i said earlier, save it for the punters.

so frames are cheap in China. The whole world sources their frames there. What's new?

 

[soundwave]

a can off coke costs 0.2p to make go demand discount at the local shop

 

[trex]

Oh yes they have...... i've seen dealers say 'No one makes much of money in this business' and even yourself saying there's only about £50 profit in the G Tech.
I dont believe any of it.

I did not say that. I said in my estimate, Gtech make £200 more on the Gtech Sport than Woosh make on the Karoo, there is plenty of margin to pay for TV ads. The £50 is my estimate that TV ads cost per bike to sell. That post was on the Gtech thread a couple of months ago. Since, woosh put up the price of the Karoo by 10% and Gtech did not, so the gap is now narrower.

 

[Yamdude]

I use a lot of motorcycle forums..... If we had dealers on there saying how hard they're having it, they'd be laughed off the forum.
Motorcycle dealers have mug punters that pay full price, the dealers that manage these full price sales are creaming it in....... then they have the more clued up punters that dont believe the BS and haggle hard to get a better deal.
The customer is happy, the dealer is still making good profit....... just not not as much profit as they would like to make.

 

[Yamdude]

I did not say that. I said in my estimate, Gtech make £200 more on the Gtech Sport than Woosh make on the Karoo, there is plenty of margin to pay for TV ads. The £50 is my estimate that TV ads cost per bike to sell. That post was on the Gtech thread a couple of months ago. Since, woosh put up the price of the Karoo by 10% and Gtech did not, so the gap is now narrower.

AFAIC You're a dealer on here...... a salesman, a salesman for Woosh......
In my experience of salesman, if you told me the Earth was round, i'd be tempted to join the flat Earth society.

 

[trex]

I use a lot of motorcycle forums..... If we had dealers on there saying how hard they're having it, they'd be laughed off the forum.
Motorcycle dealers have mug punters that pay full price, the dealers that manage these full price sales are creaming it in....... then they have the more clued up punters that dont believe the BS and haggle hard to get a better deal.
The customer is happy, the dealer is still making good profit....... just not not as much profit as they would like to make.

If you sell a £10k bike, you'd make the same as selling 10 £1k bikes except you only look after one customer instead of 10. Plus, the market of motorbikes is much bigger than ebikes. I think besides companies like 50cycles, e-bike direct and a few multiples, the vast majority of ebike sellers don't make much.

 

[trex]

AFAIC You're a dealer on here...... a salesman, a salesman for Woosh......
In my experience of salesman, if you told me the Earth was round, i'd be tempted to join the flat Earth society.

I am retired - I help woosh with designing new bikes and support on this forum.