Are ebikes worth the price tag?

[electrickery]

Reliability, longevity, entry level parts, performance, resale values and no pedals. Are they really worth spending as much on, as you might do, when buying a decent used car? What really makes these bikes worth £1k, £2k, £3k or even £5k plus?

I guess it depends how much cash you have and how much you want to spend. Personally my £600 pound hub motor bikes (2 of) give me a lot of pleasure so for me yes. I would balk at paying £2k plus for a bike but that is mainly beacause it would interfere with my cash flow and for me not really see much benefit in a super expensive bike . But I guess it is so subjective. how much you want to get in and how much pleasure you get out.. each to their own Buy what you can afford and enjoy it .
Regards

 

[anotherkiwi]

3899€ he can have my money (if I had it) any day of the week for one of these!

http://www.herkelmannbikes.com/shop/e-trekkingbike/

Exists with a bar that is harder to lift older legs over too

One day I am going to send him 130€ for a pair of those mudguards with incorporated pannier bars though!

 

[Gubbins]

Thinking about an earlier post..
There is a whole range of brand new sports motorcycles out there for less than 5 grand and if you put one side by side with a 5 grand ebike the difference is astounding in what you get!!
I am not saying go out and buy a motorbike, just responding to the question about value..
as an example..
https://www.colinappleyard.com/motorcycles/new/yamaha/yamaha-xj6-range

Just sayin!!

 

[soundwave]

good luck riding that down a mountain trail pmsl.

hi end bikes have always cost mega bucks last 1 is 9k for what???

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ghost-riot-lc-10-suspension-bike-2016/rp-prod140308

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/fuji-altamira-sl-1-1-road-bike-2014/rp-prod147021

http://www.stif.co.uk/bikebuilder/santa-cruz-v10-cc-custom-bike/112?gclid=CjwKEAjwkui7BRCf64DNtfDupgoSJAA_0LOoRx7oHTDRV8RQ2KbtCESar8mgPojPE5m1km01CVfHvhoCJ57w_wcB

https://www.evanscycles.com/scott-spark-700-ultimate-2016-mountain-bike-EV253353

https://www.evanscycles.com/trek-emonda-slr-10-2016-road-bike-EV219115

 

[anotherkiwi]

I love motorbikes, I don't have a licence but 125 cc is plenty for getting about around here on country roads where you can't go faster than 115 km/h anyway without risking killing yourself. Does it come with a trailer hitch so I can go shopping? Plus registration, plus insurance, plus can't park it inside the stairs, plus petrol, plus garage servicing fees, plus... You aren't looking at 5000€ but much more over the life of the vehicle.

From memory my 125 cc Aprilla Leonardo was costing me about 1800€ a year which is very cheap, it sipped petrol and was very reliable and it had a huge baggage space under the seat (two full face helmets +). Say a total cost including buying it new of 12000€ over 5 years. Compare to a 4000€ high end trekking bike + a little electricity + a 600€ replacement battery, some tyres and tubes, chain, some brake pads... 6000€ over 5 years?

For the 6000€ difference I would prefer buying a train ticket from time to time when going a few hundred kilometers and having my own personal transportation on arrival. I bet I could even have a few nights in a hotel now and then.

 

[Gubbins]

I was looking at it this way, they both have 2 wheels, sprung forks and a motor..
The ebike motor apears to be a simple thing whereas the motorcycle is somewhat more sophisticated to say the least and must have cost buckets more..
And, yes you can ride motorcycles down any trail a cycle can go..
was just comparing the tech..
Incidentally SW.. I spent an hour cleaning and now looks like yours..

 

[soundwave]

there is some sort of sticker on ur disc rotor still tho and spokes still dirty

thats a trail

 

[Gubbins]

there is some sort of sticker on ur disc rotor still tho and spokes still dirty

thats a trail

The motor cross boys can go places where cyclist fear to tread...
Back to the point though. I am beginning to think there must be a massive markup somewhere on some of these bikes..

 

[Gubbins]

there is some sort of sticker on ur disc rotor still tho and spokes still dirty

thats a trail

Didn't do the wheels... just gears and chain.

 

[Yamdude]

I often find it hard to see the value in Ebikes, because i'm always comparing what you get with a Ebike that costs thousands and what motorcycle i could buy with that money. But being a motorcyclist first and a cyclist second its hard not to.
When i see an EMTB thats getting on for £4K.... i think to myself, I could buy a brand new Honda CRF250 for that.

 

[georgehenry]

I think they are expensive but mine allows me to commute to work and back carrying two heavy panniers and getting a good deal of exercise at the same time. I suppose you could think of us as early adopters of new technology.

I have not replaced my car but now hardly ever use it to travel to work. I guess I save the diesel and wear and tear to the tune of about 2500 miles a year. It might be saving me a bit of money but I got it to get some regular exercise and enjoy the cross country routes I can use between my home and work rather than to save money.

A lot of my work colleagues think I am mad or cannot understand that you can get a lot of exercise on a bicycle with a motor. I also ride motorbikes really only for fun now and cannot understand why a chain and sprockets for my 250cc Honda dirt bike is the same or less than the for my sDuro and lasts a lot longer.

I spend most of my time sitting down at work and the exercise I now get on my journey too and from work makes a big difference, and I feel a lot better for doing it.

I got the cheapest Haibike sDuro HardSeven SL 2015 for £1750 that has an air adjustable fork and hydraulic disc brakes and has stood up very well to the off road xc routes I use with the occasional leap off the single track sand stone steps I come across panniers and all.

I am sure I would enjoy riding the expensive end of the electric mountain bike range but the Yamaha motor would be the same so for my needs a quality entry level bike has been great and has the same motor/power as the more expensive bikes.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

So the more I spend on a KTM bike, the better value for money I am getting?

Not really surprising coming from a dealer...

sorry if I wasn't clear.

What I was trying to say, is that if you order an £1800 eBike, the eBit of it is quite a high proportion of the cost, so if you compare it to an £1800 normal bike, the normal bike can look better value, as the electric adds quite a lot % wise.

However when you're spending more and more, the eBit becomes less and less of the value. So when a customer is spending £4-6000 on a normal MTB, the bit extra for the eBit isn't as much.

 

[LEBC Tom]

I know a Kalkhoff bike sold for £2,400 would make a 45% profit margin to the reseller.

Source?

And you're forgetting the VAT element of the transaction.

 

[Gubbins]

sorry if I wasn't clear.

What I was trying to say, is that if you order an £1800 eBike, the eBit of it is quite a high proportion of the cost, so if you compare it to an £1800 normal bike, the normal bike can look better value, as the electric adds quite a lot % wise.

However when you're spending more and more, the eBit becomes less and less of the value. So when a customer is spending £4-6000 on a normal MTB, the bit extra for the eBit isn't as much.

Good point. One can spend many thousands of pounds on an unpowered mtb..

 

[Gubbins]

An interesting read ...
http://road.cc/content/feature/196199-e-bike-vs-road-bike-shootout-austrias-toughest-climb

 

[Tomtomato]

Source?

And you're forgetting the VAT element of the transaction.

Well, I got that information...from 50 Cycles themselves.

When I bought my bike, retail price was £2,390. I did think they must be doing a high margin, and therefore there was room for negotiation. They offered a £400 discount fairly quickly (which I was happy with), and then copied me (clearly by mistake) on an email boasting that they were still going to make a 40% margin anyway... At that point, I surely didn't feel sorry asking for a significant discount, but I do feel sorry for the people not asking for one, or using the "special" £100 discount code!

To be honest, I don't mind if they are selling their bikes at a high margin, but then I would expect some of that money to be reinvested in aftersales, as opposed to having a mechanic one day a week at their London shop for instance...

 

[Tomtomato]

However when you're spending more and more, the eBit becomes less and less of the value. So when a customer is spending £4-6000 on a normal MTB, the bit extra for the eBit isn't as much.

I disagree: the margin just increases for the retailer and manufacturer (in term of percentage and absolute value), not the value for money for the customer.

Typically, expensive push bikes have very light components and expensive frames, so price is not just driven by the mechanical components. On ebikes, the weight does not matter as much, and therefore the manufacturer is not spending the money on expensive lightweight frames...

 

[RobF]

Well, I got that information...from 50 Cycles themselves.

When I bought my bike, retail price was £2,390. I did think they must be doing a high margin, and therefore there was room for negotiation. They offered a £400 discount (which I was happy with), and then copied me (clearly by mistake) on an email boasting that they were still going to make a 40% margin anyway... At that point, I surely didn't feel sorry asking for a significant discount!

I've known the owner of my local bike shop for nearly 20 years.

He has different deals with different suppliers, but a gross margin of 30 or 40 per cent on a new bike is common, not forgetting the occasional clearance offers.

That's gross, and running a bike shop is certainly not a licence to print money.

My mate does OK, being well established and able to weather the bad times.

The big boys may be getting even bigger margins.

I could only guess what Halfords and the like pay for their £149 specials, but it might be as little as twenty quid.

 

[Gubbins]

I've known the owner of my local bike shop for nearly 20 years.

He has different deals with different suppliers, but a gross margin of 30 or 40 per cent on a new bike is common, not forgetting the occasional clearance offers.

That's gross, and running a bike shop is certainly not a licence to print money.

My mate does OK, being well established and able to weather the bad times.

The big boys may be getting even bigger margins.

I could only guess what Halfords and the like pay for their £149 specials, but it might be as low as twenty quid.

The company I worked for manufactured and sold their own products, the price of which reflected labour, materials, machinery and many other "overheads".
Then they discovered they could buy these items from third world countries already made for fraction of the cost by often slave labour, but still sold at the same price thus making more profit.
I tend to assume that this is the norm and other businesses will do this if they can.

 

[Tomtomato]

The big boys may be getting even bigger margins.

I could only guess what Halfords and the like pay for their £149 specials, but it might be as little as twenty quid.

Yes indeed. 50 Cycles may be one of the largest electric bike reseller in the UK, but they are not going to sell the same volumes of bikes as a standard bike shop, as their average price must be around £2,500. I think electric bike prices will have to get to around £500/£700 before they become mainstream.

I did see the equivalent non-electric version of the bike I bought, also sold by Kalkhoff, in Continental Europe for 500 EUR (retail price, so with margin).

Given that the Impulse motor is manufactured by Kalkhoff (I guess the point to move away from Panasonic was to keep the cost down), battery, computer etc, I think the electric version is probably adding another £500-£600 to the manufacturing price (at most, due to Kalkhoff volumes and economies of scale).

The electric version of the bike sold for £2,400 (or £2,000 excluding VAT) is attracting a very high margin...