Are e-bikes with an off-road switch legal to ride on UK roads under 15.5mph?

[JOB100]

I found this kit which I'm sure is one of many on the web which has an off-road switch allowing it to go above speeds of 15.5mph and 250W: http://www.electric-bike-conversions.co.uk/acatalog/electric_bike_rear_hub1000w_kit_details.html

I read this page on this website about UK law: http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/electric-bike-guides/uk-electric-bike-law/
It sounds like it's saying that it is not guarenteed legal to ride at higher speeds on any off road land, rather than saying that it's illegal to ride a bike with an off road switch below the 250W and 15.5mph limit on UK roads. But it is not clear to me and could be saying that these bikes are outlawed without further registration as a moped.

I contacted the Electric Bike Conversions company who say it is legal to ride it. I actually plan on keeping within the law on my daily commutes, but would like the option of switching to above 15.5mph when on private land or off road. So my question is, is it legal to ride a bicycle with such a kit on UK roads, provided it is kept switched to the 250W and 15.5mph max?

 

[flecc]

This is a bit tricky. As part of a statement about e-bike permissions, the DfT said this:

The use of an "Off Road Button" however is strictly forbidden now and is specifically mentioned in documents appertaining to new and existing guidelines.

It's the word "use" that's in question, and how lawyers and police interpret it. It could be claimed that having one fitted is "use", in the sense of used in the bike's design.

Personally I think having such a control which the rider can use while riding is probably illegal, since the bike and rider clearly have the capability of breaking the assist speed law while in use on the road.
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[RobF]

[QUOTE="JOB100, post: 280892, member: 9487", but would like the option of switching to above 15.5mph when on private land or off road.[/QUOTE]

Doing that off road would be just as illegal as doing it on road.

"Private land" doesn't help, unless it is fully enclosed and there is no public access or rights of way across it.

In short, there is no realistic way of riding a 1,000w bike legally.

And you need to ask yourself, would you want to?

A 1,000w hub bike would be a dreadful, harsh, cycling experience.

It might be fun for the first few yards of the first ride, but I reckon you would soon tire of it.

 

[Fordulike]

A 1,000w hub bike would be a dreadful, harsh, cycling experience.

You can't generalize all 1000+ watt hub bikes as being a dreadful, harsh, cycling experience.

My previous 1500w MAC rear hub motored bike was very comfortable, smooth and highly controllable, nothing like what you describe.

I do agree with you entirely that JOB100 should think long and hard about building a bike with the speed option. Chances are, once the speed mode has been tasted, they will not ride with the 15.5mph limited mode selected.

 

[RobF]

Any wheel weighing that much and with such short spokes will not be a very pure cycling experience, but if the OP likes it, fine.

An 'off-road' button does nothing to make a 1,000w bike legal.

If the OP wants legal, it has to be 250w/15.5mph, with no option to increase the speed.

 

[London Pie]

I think a bike with full suspension like a downhill mtb would make a great large motor electric bike and would soak up all the potholes. I was thinking of putting one together myself. It would be illegal to ride absolutely anywhere in the UK due to our overzealous Heath and safety laws....unless it was taxed and insured and classed as a moped - it could be ridden on the street, which kind of defeats the object of cycling, but it it means you can coast at 30mph all the way to work - it's got to be better than getting the bus!
Has anyone tried to get an electric vehicle like this licensed for the road? I have a 125cc scooter now - but would like to switch to electric so I don't have to buy petrol.
If anyone has any info on how to make a 1000+ watt electric bike street legal it would be much appreciated

 

[flecc]

If anyone has any info on how to make a 1000+ watt electric bike street legal it would be much appreciated

It's not practical. There are two possible motor vehicle classes it could fall into. The first is Low Powered Moped, but since that is still restricted to 15.6 mph it's no good to you.

The second is the full moped class, but to get an e-bike single vehicle approved so it can be registered as that is a nightmare. It not only means fitting lots of moped/motorcycle approved items like lights and tyres, it also means it must be ridden with an approved motor cycle helmet. And of course if you accept all that, it has a rear number plate and tax disc, your must have the appropriate driving licence or go through CBT and the driving test. And after three years and every year thereafter it will have to have an MOT.
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[London Pie]

I see what you mean flecc - it does sound like proper chore with all the extra bits required and outweighs the purpose of cycling in the first place, and you would look a proper numpty on a pushbike with a motorcycle helmet!
Given the fact Govecs produce a good looking electric scooter equivalent of a 125cc it is not worthwhile buying anything over 250 watts then? as it would be illegal to ride almost anywhere in the UK (unless it's on private land)
Personally I think 15mph to speed is a bit miserly - I think 20mph would be better.

 

[flecc]

Given the fact Govecs produce a good looking electric scooter equivalent of a 125cc it is not worthwhile buying anything over 250 watts then? as it would be illegal to ride almost anywhere in the UK (unless it's on private land)
Personally I think 15mph to speed is a bit miserly - I think 20mph would be better.

Yes, definitely not worth buying over 250 watts if you want to remain legal. Also even private land use is far more difficult than it might seem. It has to be fully enclosed privately owned land to which the public have no right of access, so even a public footpath crossing a private estate rules that estate out as legal to ride in.

In practice you aren't restricted to 15 mph with a legal e-bike. The law allows 15.6 mph and the DfT have confirmed that the usual 10% tolerance applies. That means you can have assistance up to 17.2 mph in practice, which is rather nicer.
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[Fordulike]

Any wheel weighing that much and with such short spokes will not be a very pure cycling experience, but if the OP likes it, fine.

I do understand where you are coming from Rob. If the OP has ridden the likes of an electric Haibike, or a top branded non powered bike before, then they are likely to be disappointed.

If they have ridden nothing but Halford's Trax specials (I own one lol), then they probably won't notice much difference in handling, apart from the extra weight.

 

[RobF]

I do understand where you are coming from Rob. If the OP has ridden the likes of an electric Haibike, or a top branded non powered bike before, then they are likely to be disappointed.

If they have ridden nothing but Halford's Trax specials (I own one lol), then they probably won't notice much difference in handling, apart from the extra weight.

A 1,000w hub bike with a modern controller might not be the horrid, jerky contraption I fear it might be.

As a general point, I think there is a temptation for those new to ebikes to go for as much power as possible.

But the high power experience often palls after a short time.

Long term ebiking pleasure comes from something legal, or close to it.

 

[Fordulike]

Long term ebiking pleasure comes from something legal, or close to it.

and reliable, whereas the generic Chinese kits can require a little more tweaking and maintenance, than the likes of a properly designed electric bike such as a Haibike.

 

[RobF]

and reliable, whereas the generic Chinese kits can require a little more tweaking and maintenance, than the likes of a properly designed electric bike such as a Haibike.

Another good point.

I like to have a clean, well maintained bike, but I don't especially like cleaning or maintaining it.

Bosch bikes suit me well, but others may enjoy fettling so will get on equally well with a Chinese conversion.

 

[Kudoscycles]

I found this kit which I'm sure is one of many on the web which has an off-road switch allowing it to go above speeds of 15.5mph and 250W: http://www.electric-bike-conversions.co.uk/acatalog/electric_bike_rear_hub1000w_kit_details.html

I read this page on this website about UK law: http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/electric-bike-guides/uk-electric-bike-law/
It sounds like it's saying that it is not guarenteed legal to ride at higher speeds on any off road land, rather than saying that it's illegal to ride a bike with an off road switch below the 250W and 15.5mph limit on UK roads. But it is not clear to me and could be saying that these bikes are outlawed without further registration as a moped.

I contacted the Electric Bike Conversions company who say it is legal to ride it. I actually plan on keeping within the law on my daily commutes, but would like the option of switching to above 15.5mph when on private land or off road. So my question is, is it legal to ride a bicycle with such a kit on UK roads, provided it is kept switched to the 250W and 15.5mph max?

Job 100...,
I am afraid that this is a bit of a non starter...
Really electric bike conversions need to revamp their website.
Off road boost buttons or switches have been illegal on e-bikes for some time,their illegality is specifically mentioned in the regs.
Off Road is a meaningless term....more correctly it should state 'private land use only where the public have no right of access'.....that is a very difficult bit of real estate....no forestry commission land,no public bridle ways etc.
The 250/1000 watt motor is described as gearless,in 250 watt mode these motors are gutless,the gears are needed to achieve any sensible acceleration. They are ok in the 1000 illegal watt mode but certainly not dynamic,especially with a heavy rider,these bikes are the same as ridden by most Chinese,who are often light people (50kg) and not often asked to go up hills (most Chinese cities are on flood plains,ie flat!). You see lightweight Chinese girls pedalling hard to get them going,once in cruise mode they gather speed quite well.
You are better off with a 250 watt geared BPM motor,which will give good acceleration and low speed torque and is legal.
KudosDave

 

[derf]

It's not practical. There are two possible motor vehicle classes it could fall into. The first is Low Powered Moped, but since that is still restricted to 15.6 mph it's no good to you.

The second is the full moped class, but to get an e-bike single vehicle approved so it can be registered as that is a nightmare. It not only means fitting lots of moped/motorcycle approved items like lights and tyres, it also means it must be ridden with an approved motor cycle helmet. And of course if you accept all that, it has a rear number plate and tax disc, your must have the appropriate driving licence or go through CBT and the driving test. And after three years and every year thereafter it will have to have an MOT.
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As a complete aside,you could I guess buy an old Raleigh wisp (drum braked vintage moped based on heavy folding bike called Raleigh rsw) and put a 750w BBS crank drive and big apples on it. I realise its a funny looking frankenbike,but I know someone who has done this who is quite happy with it

 

[flecc]

As a complete aside,you could I guess buy an old Raleigh wisp (drum braked vintage moped based on heavy folding bike called Raleigh rsw) and put a 750w BBS crank drive and big apples on it. I realise its a funny looking frankenbike,but I know someone who has done this who is quite happy with it

Yes, you could do that, but you'd need to register the motor change with the DVLC.

There's also likely to be problems with the annual MOTs since it will not be exempt* from these, particularly with the Big Apples since they are not to the required motorcycle standards.

* Under the old rules exemption was pre1960, ruling out the late 1960s Wisp. Under newer EU rules exemption can be granted for any vehicle over 30 years old, but not if subject to substantial change. Since the motor change is certainly substantial, it would be liable for annual MOTs, with the first one before it could be legally on the road if not already holding a current MOT.
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[the_killjoy]

I wasn't aware of the substantial change limitation. If you did the change how would the V5 be marked to show that a MOT was required.

 

[JOB100]

Thanks everyone for all the well informed replies. As usual the Europeans are ahead on this topic, and an S-Pedelec class is required. The whole concept of riding an e-bike slower than a normal human powered bicycle whether on or off road is ludicrous. I understand that inputting human power on top of electric assist will gain me some speed, but I think 25mph top speed on full electric would be about perfect. Sometimes I actually don't want to put in any power of my own, but on the other hand, I don't want a high speed vehicle like a moped.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Thanks everyone for all the well informed replies. As usual the Europeans are ahead on this topic, and an S-Pedelec class is required. The whole concept of riding an e-bike slower than a normal human powered bicycle whether on or off road is ludicrous. I understand that inputting human power on top of electric assist will gain me some speed, but I think 25mph top speed on full electric would be about perfect. Sometimes I actually don't want to put in any power of my own, but on the other hand, I don't want a high speed vehicle like a moped.

This is a common misconception.

As a very serious competitive cyclist I can promise you that a legal eBike is very much faster than a normal bicycle, over 95% of rides... and this is because the average speed is increased so much by the speed over all the low speed sections being increased (hills and every acceleration away from lights etc etc are much faster). So if you look at the ride as a whole, or indeed your weeks riding as a whole, you'll find a legal eBike is a LOT faster than a normal bike. Don't just look at the top speed, its not about that, and the laws around eBikes aren't in place to get people from a2b faster, they are there to get more people cycling, safely and efficiently.

The 15.5mph speed limit (actually more in practice) is there for many reasons and unlikely to be increased, because the vast majority of the lobbying bodies (cycle, eBike and motorbike industries) are more than happy with it.

 

[flecc]

I wasn't aware of the substantial change limitation. If you did the change how would the V5 be marked to show that a MOT was required.

I presume it already would already be marked previously, since a post 1960 bike like the Wisp would already have needed an annual MOT if used on the road. The motor change means it couldn't benefit from the EU measure, since that major part would be less than the 30 years old requirement for exemption.
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