Are E-bikes overpriced?

[GLJoe]

With Ebikes the cheapest model with the motor and suspension that you want (front and rear, front only or none) is generally the best value.

Don't agree with the above, or at least it needs to be put into more context.

Within a good manufacturers range, maybe - in as much as you're not going to get a Cube, or Specialized or Trek etc that has totally rubbish components.
However there are load of other bikes out there (motorized or otherwise) that have some truly dreadful parts on them, that frankly are not fit for purpose. You'll end up spending more on replacing defective and broken parts as time goes on.

And that isn't taking into account the very good points that Ocsid made above. There is a pleasure in riding a well designed, higher end bike, that you often just don't get with the lower end ones.
There seem to be many people however that either are incapable of discerning these differences (in which case - lucky them, they can be happy riding and owning any old crap), or they are in denial, because they don't want to admit to themselves that a more expensive bike can give a better ride experience and the parts can last longer etc etc.

That said, there is a law of diminishing returns, so often something in the mid range of decent is often the best compromise and gives the best 'value' !

 

[lightning]

Sorry yes let me clarify my post.

My comment about the cheapest being the best value was really referring to the cheapest in a particular range.

For instance Specialized do a full suspension Ebike at around £5,000

They also do one at £8,000 and one at over £10,000

While the more expensive ones are better, the cheapest one is still a very good bike with good parts and will be all that most people will ever need.

Plus they all have the same motor. Saving 2kg with a carbon frame won't make much difference to the riding experience on a bike that weighs 25kg

It's a bit different with competitive road bikes where a lighter bike might win you a race, but l am talking about bikes for day to day use on the trails.

 

[AndyBike]

There seem to be many people however that either are incapable of discerning these differences (in which case - lucky them, they can be happy riding and owning any old crap), or they are in denial, because they don't want to admit to themselves that a more expensive bike can give a better ride experience and the parts can last longer etc etc.

And is also more capable. Off on a trail center or offroad the going is hard, and really tough on the bike and the main component parts. For example, a full suspension bike, needs, not maybe would be nice, but needs high end forks and shocks, that are infinitely variable in their adjustments,to suit rider styles or personal preferences.
But not just this, they need to be up to the task, and to be able to take big hits time and time again, and keep on rocking.


An old mechanic(probably 30 years ago) told me that the best parts on a bike(obviously talking non E) to spend your money on, were those parts that moved- So it was wheel hubs, BB and headset.
The same premise stands todays, but we should include fork and shock too, if thats the type of bike you need

 

[guerney]

This starts at about £5,000. I can't imagine that it would be easy to pedal uphill in 250W mode.

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[Ocsid]

Hard to credit anyone could use so awful a backdrop for their photoshoot.

 

[lightning]

l think that's just the prototype. The website looks very good, but l can't find a review of the trike.

It would be interesting to hear from someone who has actually ridden one, they do 250w and 1,000w versions.
l would imagine the 1,000 watt motor would be pretty much essential looking at the weight of the trike, although then it wouldn't be classed as an ebike

 

[matthewslack]

With a proper basis in the UK for speed pedelec, or now we are 'freed' from the 'tyranny' of being part of our neighbours, perhaps a UK pioneering new class of vehicle definition, then really interesting things like this become possible. How long will it take?

At 250W the weight alone is enough to make it fail.

When I run out of other ideas, I'll build something along those lines with of course a solar roof.

 

[richtea99]

It looks well made, but three-wheelers combine all the downsides of a two-wheeler + all the downsides of a four-wheeler.

Pros over two wheels:
- balance - this is the main advantage IMHO
- more luggage/motor/battery space
- a little more weather cover, but follow that line of thought and you soon arrive at a 'car'
- potentially more aerodynamic if you're prepared to sit low rather than astride the vehicle

And the cons:
- you can't filter through other traffic
- mechanically it's more complex than a two-wheeler
- they don't corner well
- they weigh more than a two-wheeler
- storage
- parking
- cost (= thread reason)

 

[Nealh]

It's a velomobil but still has to comply with pedelec laws or need registering if not.
The market for them is a very niche one and only appeal to some cyclists who prefer the recumbent style.
One needs to be quite dedicated and have very good riding ability to ride any type of velomobil on the open road, certainly not one for the masses in the UK .
Most people won't even walk a mile or less to the local shop or an appointment as they are obsessed with their car.

 

[Nealh]

When one looks at that so called prototype professional offering it looks pretty rubbish and harks back to the 80's and a kit car Dutton approach.
This diy route has a far more satisfying look and appeal in a fully weathered velomobil shell.
Ex foumite AK/Tony built this one.

Who remembers Anotherkiwi ?

It has been some two years or more now since Tony aka anotherkiwi has graced these pages with his experience and knowledge. Having moved from uprights to trikes he then developed a passion to build a Velomobile so jumped ship to a more specific forum or two, one in Germany and one in France...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

 

[Bonzo Banana]

I feel its like comparing a Landrover, McLaren sports car and Toyota Corolla. Each have their purposes and to use one compared to the other needs a more defined use. I like to go off-road but very light off-road which a gravel bike could do mainly and I really don't need sophisticated suspension or high torque gearing so high end ebikes are utterly pointless to me. The additional costs of maintaining them for zero benefit would be madness.

There is a base level of components that can cause issues though but then as you spend more and the priority often becomes to make lighter components which actually can be weaker and need replacement more frequently.

If you have a bike with a 7 speed cassette on they have amazing indexing because the tolerances are so wide and often made of steel so have a much lower wear rate but of course are heavier. In contrast if you have a bike with a 11 speed cassette you have a much thinner chain which wears more rapidly, you have quick links that you can only use once because the plate metal is so thin and generally the cost of them is extremely high. Yes you have greater control of cadence but shifting adjustment is more critical and everything needs to be maintained to a higher level. You are compromising reliability and durability for performance. That may be something you want to do but for many that would be a poor product who don't need such control of cadence especially on an ebike.

It's a bit like road bikes, some cyclists say it has to be Ultegra or Dura Ace, others say it has to be 105 as the best value option with still decent performance and others are happy with Claris or something slightly above. There is no right answer because each type of road bike has a series of advantages and disadvantages even if you remove price from the equation. However most will agree that a Tourney based road bike with a freewheel is a compromise too far and purely bought due to pricing.

However there can be other factors. Years ago a teacher commented on a forum that he had two very nice bikes but both were stolen from the school where he worked. He was sick of it and didn't want to invest in another expensive bike so bought a sterlinghouse type bike for commuting to work which were ultracheap. He bought it on the grounds that if it got stolen it wouldn't be a huge loss and would be cheap to replace but of course the sterlinghouse bike was undesirable to thieves and they didn't steal it or at least not until after he stopped commenting on the thread.

There is a lot of freedom in use to a cheap naff looking bike. Many high end road bike owners will only do loops from their home so that the bike is always securely stored or even just use it for sunday club runs where they can compete with other cyclists better and use a more basic bike when they cycle alone.

Just making the point the ideal ebike for you could be completely the wrong choice for someone else. I'm not lying when I say the £4k plus ebikes are completely undesirable for me. If I had some money burning a hole in my pocket there is zero chance I would buy such a bike. If I was a billionaire I still would have no use for one. If I won such a bike in a competition I probably wouldn't even try it but sell it as new.

I couldn't see myself spending anymore than about £2k on a regular bike and maybe £3k for an ebike. Most desirable expensive bike to me is probably a titanium Brompton as I could see that offering a lot of additional freedom of use.

 

[richtea99]

With a proper basis in the UK for speed pedelec, or now we are 'freed' from the 'tyranny' of being part of our neighbours, perhaps a UK pioneering new class of vehicle definition, then really interesting things like this become possible.

Way off topic, but would that be a 'world-beating' vehicle? One that enables us to become Global Britain: delivering on our international ambition?

 

[Bonzo Banana]

Would that be a 'world-beating' vehicle? One that enables us to become Global Britain: delivering on our international ambition?

New legislation that makes it easier for people to get onto ebikes would surely be beneficial. We left the EU with horrific debts and have now got the pandemic costs on top. We are paying something like £83 billion a year in interest which is approaching £3k in interest for every working person in this country. It is unsustainable long term. We need to return to a trading surplus and living within our means. We face decades of greater poverty sadly. Whether leaving the EU was good or bad I guess can be shown by comparing us to France and Spain who also have huge debts and a poor NIIP rating. They would be the most comparable economies that remain in the EU. Although I voted to remain I bitterly regretted that decision when I came to realise how utterly incompetent the Liberal Democrat party is who I used to vote for. When I discussed the issue of how they could turn around the UK economy to work in EU, restore industries and live within our means and stop borrowing the response was beyond a joke not even looking at the data of our economy. I am 100% convinced leaving the EU was the right thing to do although admittedly I wasn't part of that process.

 

[flecc]

Most people won't even walk a mile or less to the local shop or an appointment as they are obsessed with their car.

Just back fromthe supermarket I use, a large one with a 200 yard long car park. I park at the entrance end where there's acres of empty bays and walk the length to the shopping entrance. On the way I'm passing many drivers desperately trying to manouvre in the the bay closest possible to the shopping entrance. I've even seen them arguing over whose bay it is when two try for the same one!

It's astonishing to me how many people, once past their teens, seem to regard their legs as mainly for emergency use only.
.

 

[matthewslack]

Way off topic, but would that be a 'world-beating' vehicle? One that enables us to become Global Britain: delivering on our international ambition?

I'm on the last day of my 7 day work shift, so even I have difficulty working out if I'm being tongue in cheek or not!

In a practical sense there is room and need for ultralight but not stupidly expensive to buy or run vehicle types to facilitate low carbon transport at a level up from walking and cycling, I.e. one step beyond pedelec.

 

[flecc]

In a practical sense there is room and need for ultralight but not stupidly expensive to buy or run vehicle types to facilitate low carbon transport at a level up from walking and cycling, I.e. one step beyond pedelec.

Quadricycles are that driving class, but our laws be to be more sensible to make them more popular as they are in France for example. Here's a couple, both fully electric so environmentally good:

Citroen Ami


Renault Twizy

 

[matthewslack]

Quadricycles are that driving class, but our laws be to be more sensible to make them more popular as they are in France for example. Here's a couple, both fully electric so environmentally good:

Citroen Ami
View attachment 46382

Renault Twizy
View attachment 46383

I haven't starting thinking in too much detail yet. It is the gulf between my 26kg ebike and the 450kg Twizy that makes me think something must be possible in that space!

 

[soundwave]

 

[flecc]

I haven't starting thinking in too much detail yet. It is the gulf between my 26kg ebike and the 450kg Twizy that makes me think something must be possible in that space!

You're right of course. Part of the trouble is todays construction laws make anything like a car travelling at up to circa 50 mph quite heavy.

When quadricycles were first invented in the 1920s and called cyclecars back then, they could be built very much like bicycles and quite flimsy. But the road deaths figures back then with very few cars on the roads made the those laws necessary.

In France there are two quadricycle classes, the ones I showed and the same things restricted to 45 kph (28mph) and only 4 kW of power. These latter ones can be driven without a driving licence by anyone over 14 years old who only need to obtain a safety certificate.

If we would allow that low powered, half speed quadricycle class we could design and market such minicars, much lighter then the Twizy's 450 kg, as little of a third that.

Though knowing Britain, we'd probably have a minimum age of 17, have to be accompanied by a qualified driver with X years of experience while learning and have to pass a full driving test.

Thus killing the potentially large market.
.

 

[Nealh]

Going back to the OP then generally the answer is yes, esp when it comes to the prices the mains stream brands charge for china/taiwanese made ebike as this is where most parts are manufactured. But as has been said if the market/buyer can stomach the prices and are willing to pay them then the issue will always be the same.

The lighter the bike then expect to pay more for it, a bit like chocolate bars now twice the price half the content.