Are dual mode ebikes road legal in the UK?

[lordvincent]

A friend is interested in buying a Stealth ebike such as this one:

http://stealthbikeuk.co.uk/

According to the description, some of these bikes have a 1000w motor but can be switched between a resticted 'road legal' mode and an unrestricted off-road mode.

I was wondering whether a dual mode setup like this is road legal to ride as an EPAC (in restricted mode) in the UK..?

 

[anotherkiwi]

No it isn't.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It doesn't really matter whether it is or isn't.

Let's say you put it in legal mode. The motor is unsuited to those restrictions, so most normal legal 250w bikes will actually give you more power.

If you put it in unrestricted mode, it's more powerful and faster, but illegal.

Therefore, if you want legal, another bike would be better, so no point in getting one. If you don't care about illegalities so will ride it in unrestricted mode, then it's not important whether it is or isn't legal in restricted mode.

 

[lordvincent]

It doesn't really matter whether it is or isn't.

Let's say you put it in legal mode. The motor is unsuited to those restrictions, so most normal legal 250w bikes will actually give you more power.

If you put it in unrestricted mode, it's more powerful and faster, but illegal.

Therefore, if you want legal, another bike would be better, so no point in getting one. If you don't care about illegalities so will ride it in unrestricted mode, then it's not important whether it is or isn't legal in restricted mode.

Lol, that is a good point. However the resticted mode might not be a maximum output of 250w but rather an output mapping similar to an actual '250w' motor which gives more peak power.

Also I believe they are making a model which can be configured as a set nominal 250w motor but is switchable between having the assist cut off at 25kph or 45kph.

http://www.stealthelectricbikes.com/stealth-p-7/

So the question I have is whether any sort of user-switchability between something which behaves like an EPAC and one which behaves like a non-road legal ebike would render the bike illegal for road use..

 

[Fordulike]

I say go for it, the police will never catch you on one of those

 

[RobF]

So the question I have is whether any sort of user-switchability between something which behaves like an EPAC and one which behaves like a non-road legal ebike would render the bike illegal for road use..

You already have your answer but it's not the one you want to hear, so you keep on asking the question.

The bike is illegal for use anywhere the public has access, no matter what switches are pulled.

The retailer will tell you otherwise, but Mandy Rice-Davies famously gave you the answer to that.

So it comes down to your attitude to the law and breaking it to suit something you want to do.

Only you can answer that.

My view is taking a Stealth contraption on a cycle trail makes you no better than the yobbos who use their off-road motorbikes in the same way.

Taking one on the road makes you no better than the thousands of irresponsible drivers who drive without insurance, or who drive a poorly maintained car.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Not only is the motor illegal the switch is too.

The other day in SWMBO's car I was passed by a sweet young thing on a moped (scooter). A quick look at the speedo and I noticed I was doing 70 km/h. Now the speed limit for mopeds here like in most of the EU is 45 km/h so she was definitely breaking the law. However the way she broke the law was surprising:

- she followed me for a while before passing at the correct distance
- when she passed her exhaust note was decidedly stock
- she passed where it was legal to pass and not over the solid line

So she was breaking the law but not riding like some death wish hooligan which got me thinking about pedelecs obviously. They are the only powered (and only assisted to boot) vehicle on the road that not only has a limit on the power its motor can output but on the speed that the motor can power the vehicle to. 125 cc bikes are limited to 15 hp, mopeds are limited to 49.9 cc but for both the speed limit is in the road code not hardwired into the vehicle. Other vehicles have no limit on power or top speed by design.

 

[LeighPing]

I was wondering whether a dual mode setup like this is road legal to ride as an EPAC (in restricted mode) in the UK..?

I hope that you're not including the e-Hooligans of Northern Ireland in that question?

If you are, then it's definitely illegal.. for now at least.

If you're not, then it's still illegal but you won't get your own talkshow from it.

Seriously though, this is my dual mode bike being ridden around my back garden in street legal mode.

When not in 'Street legal' mode, here's how it compares with an 'off road' 250w 'Street legal' bike set to an off road 20 mph. But my lad's legs can power it to as much as 28 mph thereafter..

 

[Deleted member 4366]

:which got me thinking about pedelecs obviously. They are the only powered (and only assisted to boot) vehicle on the road that not only has a limit on the power its motor can output but on the speed that the motor can power the vehicle to.

Slight correction: There's no limit on the maximum output power for a legal pedelec. The limit is on the rating of the motor's continuous power. That means that if you're using a 1000w motor, you're illegal even if you power it with a 1.5v AA battery at 0.1W, and technically, even with it switched off because it becomes a motor vehicle the moment you install the motor and you can't place a motor vehicle on the road without tax and insurance.

On the other hand, there's nothing illegal when you take your 36v Kudos Safari on the road and feed it 2000W, as long as it's restricted to 25 km/h without an over-ride button.

 

[flecc]

I was wondering whether a dual mode setup like this is road legal to ride as an EPAC (in restricted mode) in the UK..?

Always illegal and clearly stated as such by the DfT. Any switch that changes the status of an e-bike between legal and illegal the DfT term an "Off Road Button".

Here is a quote of what a DfT representative stated at a meeting with interested parties on 24th April 2013. The meeting was a discussion about the 200 watt limit that existed at the time:

"The DfT and Police are aware that electric bikes currently sold and used in the UK are fitted with 250W motors, they do not intend to become involved in prosecuting those that sell or ride them. The use of an "Off Road Button" however is strictly forbidden now and is specifically mentioned in documents appertaining to new and existing guidelines."

So you can see that the No is emphatic.
.

 

[lordvincent]

Always illegal and clearly stated as such by the DfT. Any switch that changes the status of an e-bike between legal and illegal the DfT term an "Off Road Button".

Here is a quote of what a DfT representative stated at a meeting with interested parties on 24th April 2013. The meeting was a discussion about the 200 watt limit that existed at the time:

"The DfT and Police are aware that electric bikes currently sold and used in the UK are fitted with 250W motors, they do not intend to become involved in prosecuting those that sell or ride them. The use of an "Off Road Button" however is strictly forbidden now and is specifically mentioned in documents appertaining to new and existing guidelines."

So you can see that the No is emphatic.
.

Thanks for the clear answer with reference, much appreciated.

 

[lordvincent]

You already have your answer but it's not the one you want to hear, so you keep on asking the question.

The bike is illegal for use anywhere the public has access, no matter what switches are pulled.

The retailer will tell you otherwise, but Mandy Rice-Davies famously gave you the answer to that.

So it comes down to your attitude to the law and breaking it to suit something you want to do.

Only you can answer that.

My view is taking a Stealth contraption on a cycle trail makes you no better than the yobbos who use their off-road motorbikes in the same way.

Taking one on the road makes you no better than the thousands of irresponsible drivers who drive without insurance, or who drive a poorly maintained car.

There were actually no clear answers up to and including your finger-wagging and uninformative reply.

 

[anotherkiwi]

There were actually no clear answers up to and including your finger-wagging and uninformative reply.

"No it isn't" seems pretty clear to me...

 

[LeighPing]

"No it isn't" seems pretty clear to me...

It could be construed as an unqualified remark.

 

[anotherkiwi]

It is a real fact not a remark...

 

[mike killay]

This has come up so many times,
Also, there is the question as to what do you mean as 'Off road' compared to what the law says is off road.