Approved ebike list?

[flecc]

An interesting point as well is that many high powered, fast ebikes can be brought back in line by simply substituting a lower voltage battery.

For instance my bikes battery is 63v. It would be very easy to dispose of that battery (assuming I'm not insensible as a result of an accident) and present the bike for inspection with a 36v battery - whereon it would match the characteristics of most "legal" ebikes - ignoring the type approval issue etc.

That was the fact that prompted the UK authorities to include in the 1983 EAPC regulations the requirement for a plate affixed to every e-bike, stating the battery voltage, the motor wattage rating and the e-bike's weight, covering the fundamentals of that law. The 2003 EU legislation is nothing like as thorough in this respect of displaying legality.

 

[Jeremy]

That was the fact that prompted the UK authorities to include in the 1983 EAPC regulations the requirement for a plate affixed to every e-bike, stating the battery voltage, the motor wattage rating and the e-bike's weight, covering the fundamentals of that law. The 2003 EU legislation is nothing like as thorough in this respect of displaying legality.

Very true, all that's needed for an EU Type Approved EPAC is for a label that displays EN15194, the power assist cut off speed and the motor rated power. The latter is a bit unrealistic, as we know from the way that the compliance test in Annex D is worded that the true motor power can probably around double, or maybe more, than the derived power from the acceleration test, if the manufacturer knows how to work the rules to their advantage.

 

[shemozzle999]

Earlier I was informed about BEBA and its members, but closer investigation revealed that there was no requirement for them to sell only 100% legal ebikes. Perhaps they might want to consider creating what I think would be a very useful aid for potential ebike customers by putting such a list together.

I think they might be unable to do this at present considering what has come to light.

They have been leading the way though to get this messy situation sorted out but have not had much help from members of this site, in the form of number count; I include myself as I have not contributed to the surveys they raised.

I would now be inclined to support them if we could agree a common goal and raise a simply worded petition of support to show the DfT that there is an interest to resolve all the problems.

It could be done if the webmasters emailed (similar to when we had the hacking problem) an invitation to all members active and dormant to explain their help would be appreciated to participate in a drive to get the maximum assistance from the government department.

 

[Jeremy]

I'm sure you're right. The idea of a concerted effort by both industry (in the shape of the vendors in the UK) and consumers (the members of this forum would make a good sample) is a very good one.

Hopefully we all now have a better understanding of the mess that the government have created through their inaction, and the way they have turned many innocent people into law breakers. It's about time the DfT acted to resolve this.

Resolving it quickly is very simple. They have the power to issue an exemption, with immediate effect, that would clear up the legal position until such time as the various statutes were re-drafted and passed by parliament. This isn't difficult, and I have personally seen them do this over three separate aviation issues, so know beyond doubt that it can be done.

 

[flecc]

Resolving it quickly is very simple. They have the power to issue an exemption, with immediate effect, that would clear up the legal position until such time as the various statutes were re-drafted and passed by parliament. This isn't difficult, and I have personally seen them do this over three separate aviation issues, so know beyond doubt that it can be done.

Very true and desirable. Unfortunately e-bikes have always had a very low priority within the DfT, for years responsibility for them resting with one fairly junior person in the department as only a small part of his responsibilities. Little wonder that nothing much happened to updating compatibility issues after the November 2003 adoption of the EU type approval document. When he was moved to another area of responsibility about 4 or 5 years ago, e-bikes lost all representation in the DfT and I have no idea when or if anyone was subsequently assigned that responsibility.

 

[103Alex1]

I have no idea when or if anyone was subsequently assigned that responsibility.

Sounds like establishing the answer to this might be a useful early move.

 

[flecc]

Sounds like establishing the answer to this might be a useful early move.

BEBA have been speaking with DfT people on these issues and a short while ago they called for representations on the e-bike law revision, so clearly they are and have been currently doing things in this area. What happened before this period and what will happen after the revision is complete is another matter though. E-bikes being such a tiny part of the UK transport scene, I can never see it being better than a small part of someone's responsibilities in the DfT.

In an ideal world the revision will remove the necessity for any further action and no-one will be necessary!

 

[Jeremy]

In an ideal world the revision will remove the necessity for any further action and no-one will be necessary!

If they really wanted to save themselves from ever having to bother with this topic again, then they should look to future-proof any revision to the current laws.

At least part of the problem with the EAPC regulation is the reference to the need to define the motor power output to BS1727:1971, something that may be beyond the means of many smaller vendors and certainly beyond the means of individuals who fit a kit to their bikes.

Add in that this BS has been long since superseded, so that no BS approved test house will be currently equipped to test a motor using it without, perhaps, an expensive amendment to their accreditation, and it becomes obvious that this statute has outlived its usefulness.

If the revision included acceptance of the EU regulations and also acceptance of any electrically powered bike that met these three safety related critieria:

1) Weighed less than 40kg (solo, or 60kg tandem or tricycle)

2) Had a maximum power assisted speed of 15.5mph

3) Complied with the Pedal Cycles (Safety) Regulations 2003 or any law that supersedes this in future

then they could save an awful lot of angst and hassle.

 

[Old_Dave]

1 2 3 So simple , yet it really does do the job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[flecc]

1 2 3 So simple , yet it really does do the job.

Indeed, but in our modern world we seem to have lost the art of simple but effective.

 

[Jeremy]

The thing I like about simple rules like this is that it is very hard to cheat them and it is extremely easy to prove compliance by the roadside.

If a police officer suspects that an ebike is illegal all that's needed is a check of the weight (simple spring balance), a check of the maximum power assisted speed (a run down the road with his phone GPS?) and a check of the brakes (the existing "push the bike with the brakes on" test they can do on pedal cycles at the moment).

Far too simple for anyone to ever adopt as law..................

 

[jazper53]

The thing I like about simple rules like this is that it is very hard to cheat them and it is extremely easy to prove compliance by the roadside.

If a police officer suspects that an ebike is illegal all that's needed is a check of the weight (simple spring balance), a check of the maximum power assisted speed (a run down the road with his phone GPS?) and a check of the brakes (the existing "push the bike with the brakes on" test they can do on pedal cycles at the moment).

Far too simple for anyone to ever adopt as law..................

Were starting to enter cloud cuckoo land

I prefer the policy, If a police officer suspects that an ebike is illegal he observes the blind eye policy, much like the urban 20mph speed limit

 

[Jeremy]

Were are starting to enter the cloud cuckoo land

Yes, it seems like common sense, but, as we all know, sense is not at all common within government.

 

[Hero Eco]

If that means a system for vetting kits, that wouldn't help those wanting to build their own ebikes without using a kit, though....

Miles, by 'kits' this includes home conversions too. So don't despair Whilst we of course have commercial interests, we also have interest in the whole sector.

 

[Miles]

Miles, by 'kits' this includes home conversions too. So don't despair Whilst we of course have commercial interests, we also have interest in the whole sector.

Thanks Mark.

So, as Jeremy says, it would have to be simple test. Done at the existing MSVA centres?

 

[Jeremy]

Thanks Mark.

So, as Jeremy says, it would have to be simple test. Done at the existing MSVA centres?

TBH, if the powers that be accept that all that's needed to ensure public safety is a weight limit and a maximum power assisted speed, plus the normal requirement for any bike that it has working brakes, then I think the test could be done pretty much anywhere. It shouldn't have anything to do with the Vehicle Inspectorate, and couldn't easily make use of their facilities, and, by definition these are bicycles, not motor vehicles.

The only test equipment needed would be a spring balance and something to measure speed, either a stopwatch over a fixed distance on level ground or easier still a GPS. GPS speed is accurate enough that two runs in opposite directions down something like a running track, with the speed averaged between the two to take out the wind component, should be fine.

If the government really want this to happen then they could even allow local bike shops to do the testing. Might add a boost to the sector as a whole by doing that. After all, they let garages do MOT testing, so there is a precedent from the DfT going back a long way to allow vehicle safety checks to be done within the private sector.

 

[jackhandy]

Come now, Jeremy, bike shops testing bikes?......

What would that leave for the inevitable Quango to "organise"?

 

[Miles]

TBH, if the powers that be accept that all that's needed to ensure public safety is a weight limit and a maximum power assisted speed, plus the normal requirement for any bike that it has working brakes

If things had gone differently WRT Type Approval, that idea might have stood a chance... It seems pretty unlikely that it would happen, now...

 

[shemozzle999]

If the government really want this to happen then they could even allow local bike shops to do the testing. Might add a boost to the sector as a whole by doing that. After all, they let garages do MOT testing, so there is a precedent from the DfT going back a long way to allow vehicle safety checks to be done within the private sector.

Excellent idea Jeremy but to do the the speed test would you not require the use of a throttle

 

[Jeremy]

Come now, Jeremy, bike shops testing bikes?......

What would that leave for the inevitable Quango to "organise"?

Very true, which means it'll never happen, unfortunately.

If things had gone differently WRT Type Approval, that idea might have stood a chance... It seems pretty unlikely that it would happen, now...

I tend to agree, but there is a slim chance that the government wish to seek a genuine solution that will allow kit or DIY ebikes to be made legal. They've done this for kit cars and motorcycles, so there is at least a precedent that shines a tiny glimmer of hope.

Excellent idea Jeremy but to do the the speed test would you not require the use of a throttle

Yes, but the long standing UK regs allow a throttle and there is (so we are led to believe) an informal agreement in principle to the use of a throttle by the DfT. Testing power assist speed without a throttle is tricky, but not too hard if the pedelec is just a simple pedal speed sensor, as most kits and DIY one-off ebikes use. All that requires is for the pedals to be going around, as there is no load sensor on the cranks, so it is fairly easy to detect when the pedals need some effort to turn as the power assist ceases.