Another news article

[Nefarious]

E-bike crash death prompts debate over safety on UK roads

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/14/e-bike-crash-death-prompts-debate-over-safety-on-uk-roads?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Bit more balanced than some reports but includes the usual misconception between what is an assist limit and what is a speed limit...

 

[Gubbins]

So by riding an ebike, or any bike for that matter i am helping to acheive critical mass? Could that cause an explosion of bikes?

 

[Nefarious]

So by riding an ebike, or any bike for that matter i am helping to acheive critical mass? Could that cause an explosion of bikes?

Hmm not sure - I wouldn't want to be guilty of pedalling scare stories!!

 

[flecc]

Another rubbish story, the quote about 1 in 20 adults intending to buy one in the next 12 months is particularly ridiculous. That would be a jump from circa 65,000 this year to 2.5 millions next year. There wouldn't be enough produced to supply anywhere near that in addition to the over one million that Europe buys.

 

[Chris.]

If drivers can't judge speed maybe all veacles should be restricted to 15.5mph it would save lives

 

[flecc]

If drivers can't judge speed maybe all veacles should be restricted to 15.5mph it would save lives

I think it's mainly pedestrians who have this problem. However, things are moving the way you suggest, many urban areas restricted to 20 mph. My London Borough, the largest, now has a 20 mph limit on all streets but the main through routes which are 30 mph.

I doubt this saves many lives though since our road deaths are so low, the lowest in the world by far. With around 50 million people moving around on wheels most days, our circa 4.8 deaths a day is miraculously low at around one death in two million day journeys.
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[Gubbins]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/17/20mph-limit-dangerous-costly-reverse-council-admits/

 

[flecc]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/17/20mph-limit-dangerous-costly-reverse-council-admits/

We haven't seen that effect in my 20 limit area, probably due to the much higher intensity of London traffic. Pedestrians still seem to take all their usual care, certainly more than those I see away from London.
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[Paul smith]

E bike wipes out family with young kids.....both parents killed ..3 children contunuously rode over..god it,s disgusting..these ebikers must be stopped.now.

 

[Eagle]

This brings to mind the number of deaths annually from shark/human interactions.

On average there are a mere 6 people killed worldwide by sharks each year.

In total contrast there are millions of sharks killed by humans annually.

https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/shark-attacks/yearly-worldwide-summary/

However the media reaction in some quarters is totally hysterical, with headlines like:
Shark attacks spark concern for Cape Cod beachgoers: 'They're eating our children'

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2018/09/28/shark-attacks-off-cape-cod-beaches-spark-growing-concern-theyre-eating-our-children.html

The cyclists, just like the sharks, are demonised by some and yet they are the ones who are being killed in much greater numbers, usually by cars, lorries, buses, motorcycles etc.

https://fullfact.org/health/cyclist-deaths/

This latest cycling fatality is the 10th in London alone in 2018:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1024574/london-news-cyclist-killed-deptford-met-police-latest

 

[Trevormonty]

We haven't seen that effect in my 20 limit area, probably due to the much higher intensity of London traffic. Pedestrians still seem to take all their usual care, certainly more than those I see away from London.
.

Smartphones are bigger threat to pedestrian safety. Short of turn cell towers off , can't see easy fix.

 

[Gubbins]

I am coming around to the view that as a cyclist among the modern pedestrian I need to be more proactive. The ping ping bell supplied with most bikes is neither use nor ornament and attaching an air horn whilst highly amusing is no good either so need a different approach. I found my Cobi quite good with a two volume electronic bell, which grabs their attention partly because they think it sounds like a mobile phone, but my new bike isn't supported by Cobi so I will need something else.

 

[Eagle]

Gubbins,

I use this Crane Bell Suzu and it does certainly get the attention of pedestrians:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Crane-Bell-Brass-Bicycle-Steel/dp/B00KFCYUYK/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Listen:

 

[Gubbins]

Gubbins,

I use this Crane Bell Suzu and it does certainly get the attention of pedestrians:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Crane-Bell-Brass-Bicycle-Steel/dp/B00KFCYUYK/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Listen:

TBH, I am more in favour of the old ring ring type bell, but as new bike is 5 weeks away I wont be using shared paths anytime soon so time t look.

 

[Rich_uk]

“Last year for the first time, more Dutch people died on a bike than in a car. Of those 206 deaths, a quarter involved e-bikes”

So ebikes are safer then

 

[Steve Bowles]

I think it's mainly pedestrians who have this problem. However, things are moving the way you suggest, many urban areas restricted to 20 mph. My London Borough, the largest, now has a 20 mph limit on all streets but the main through routes which are 30 mph.

I doubt this saves many lives though since our road deaths are so low, the lowest in the world by far. With around 50 million people moving around on wheels most days, our circa 4.8 deaths a day is miraculously low at around one death in two million day journeys.
.

Since the average speed on a British road is 20 mph, not by choice or design, but by the number of vehicles trying to get somewhere on two-lane blacktop, I don't think this is something to celebrate.

 

[flecc]

“Last year for the first time, more Dutch people died on a bike than in a car. Of those 206 deaths, a quarter involved e-bikes”

In any case that statistic reflects a decrease in car deaths, not any increase in bicycle deaths. For many years the average number of bike deaths in The Netherlands has been about 200 per annum, so the huge growth in e-biking there hasn't made any difference to
cycling deaths total.

The oddest thing about their cycling deaths is that 40% don't involve any other vehicle, they just manage to kill themselves!
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[flecc]

Since the average speed on a British road is 20 mph, not by choice or design, but by the number of vehicles trying to get somewhere on two-lane blacktop, I don't think this is something to celebrate.

Average speeds are not killers, impact speeds can be. To average 20 mph means speeds of double to treble that at times. If I stick to the 20 limit in my borough my average will be way lower after allowing for time in traffic queues, at traffic lights, crossings, roundabouts etc.
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[Gubbins]

Short story..
I was out in the car, going up a really steep hill that has a 20 mph speed limit which I always adhere to without exception, so doing 20 I get a phone call, which I didn't answer when driving but saw on the display that it was my son so pulled over in the next gateway to ring back in case there was a problem (He is a cyclist and may need international rescue). Apparently he was behind me and was ringing to tell me to get a move on.. old fogies driving slowly!!
We had the conversation later but he still maintained I was driving too slow and holding everyone up, which of course I was because no one bothers with that 20mph zone.
Now we do joke about a lot so he could have just been winding me up, but in the grand scheme of things I am regularly tailgated and/or overtaken in my locality when driving at the speed limit, so is it me that's causing a hazard?

 

[flecc]

Now we do joke about a lot so he could have just been winding me up, but in the grand scheme of things I am regularly tailgated and/or overtaken in my locality when driving at the speed limit, so is it me that's causing a hazard?

I get the same tailgating if holding to the limit, many drivers really resent the 20 limit in my borough. Overall most drivers run at between 25 and 30 mph now, which is 10 mph slower than they used to, so it has had a major effect. I believe this could have been the intention all along, just reducing speeds rather than any fixed limit, since they've openly said that no-one will be doing any enforcement.

It seems to be a conscience thing, the repeater 20 signs on many lamp posts in every road constantly reminding.

My new car reads the signs and displays them on my dashboard anyway, which has had an amusing effect. At the end of my long 20 limit road where it joins a 30 mph through road there's a 30 sign to show I'm about to enter that and the car dutifully shows me the 30 limit sign on the dashboard.

Trouble is that opposite my exit where I turn left into the main road there's another residential road with 20 signs at its entrance, so the car immediately switches back to 20 on the dashboard. That leaves me showing 20 in a 30 limit road for a minute or so until the GPS information backup corrects it.

Another illustration of how difficult it is to apply intelligence to cars and why true self driving cars are still a very long way off.
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