Another new member...and a question already!

[Boblet666]

Hi, I'm Bob from Gloucestershire.

I have a pro-rider e-wayfarer folding bike with throttle assist.

My wife has a Di Blasi R34 folding tricycle, also with throttle assist.

The pro-rider goes well on the throttle, the DiBlasi....not so much. Achieving only around 8mph, and it takes an age to get there.....if at all.

We want to increase the speed and power of the DiBlasi on throttle only (My wife is disabled and cannot pedal). It is fitted with a 24v 250w motor exactly like the cyclone one, and has a 24v 9ah battery. I have thought of upgrading the motor to a 500w one, and buying a battery with a greater amp rating but we're talking another 500 pounds on what was already a very expensive tricycle. I've also considered opening the battery and adding higher amp cells to it if that would help. A link to the kit is below:

http://eclipsebikes.com/chainwheel-watt-ebike-p-971.html

I'm aware of the law regarding 250w motor limitations of course, but understand this may change where disability is a consideration.

Can anyone help please?

Many thanks in advance

 

[Alan Quay]

My guess is the battery does not have enough capacity to put out the current required.

At 24v, to get 500w you need around 20A, which is over 2C in your setup. Normally, a 500w motor will peak at double that, so could happily consume 40A for a bit.

To be sure, get a watt meter from eBay, install it and see what's going on.

Then, (if that proves my theory) either get a bigger battery, or an additional one in parallel (although you'll need to ask about connecting them safely if you get that far....)

 

[Boblet666]

My guess is the battery does not have enough capacity to put out the current required.

At 24v, to get 500w you need around 20A, which is over 2C in your setup. Normally, a 500w motor will peak at double that, so could happily consume 40A for a bit.

To be sure, get a watt meter from eBay, install it and see what's going on.

Then, (if that proves my theory) either get a bigger battery, or an additional one in parallel (although you'll need to ask about connecting them safely if you get that far....)

Thank you, Alan for your advice. I'm afraid I would have no idea where to start with a watt meter. I'm happy to do the upgrade if it provides what we need. We chose the Di Blasi for its portability, it actually folds up smaller than my two-wheeler, and is lighter too. I'll try to check/find the max amp rating of the motor and may do well by just uplifting the battery. I suppose I could uplift the existing battery by putting higher amp rating cells, that may do the trick.

Again, thanks.....

 

[Alan Quay]

Thank you, Alan for your advice. I'm afraid I would have no idea where to start with a watt meter. I'm happy to do the upgrade if it provides what we need. We chose the Di Blasi for its portability, it actually folds up smaller than my two-wheeler, and is lighter too. I'll try to check/find the max amp rating of the motor and may do well by just uplifting the battery. I suppose I could uplift the existing battery by putting higher amp rating cells, that may do the trick.

Again, thanks.....

Some photos would help. What type of battery is it?

 

[Boblet666]

Some photos would help. What type of battery is it?

Unfortunately, it is bespoke to the bike, you can glimpse it on you tube here at 1 minute 24 seconds:

The battery is bespoke is due to the housing, with two contacts on the bottom that automatically connect to the positive and negative leading to the motor. The control unit for the motor is part of the motor itself. The battery does have four bolts to connect the housing together which is why I assume it could be opened and upgraded. The battery is VERY light, only a few KG unlike my silver fish type on the e-wayfarer. I would happily pop it open and add higher amp rating cells if that would gain more torque and speed from the trike. I'll try to photograph the battery and motor shortly (once the rain lifts!)

Bob.

 

[Alan Quay]

Unfortunately, it is bespoke to the bike, you can glimpse it on you tube here at 1 minute 24 seconds:

The battery is bespoke is due to the housing, with two contacts on the bottom that automatically connect to the positive and negative leading to the motor. The control unit for the motor is part of the motor itself. The battery does have four bolts to connect the housing together which is why I assume it could be opened and upgraded. The battery is VERY light, only a few KG unlike my silver fish type on the e-wayfarer. I would happily pop it open and add higher amp rating cells if that would gain more torque and speed from the trike. I'll try to photograph the battery and motor shortly (once the rain lifts!)

Bob.

The existing battery may be bespoke, but it's technology will be standard, and it easy to find another place on that bike for a different battery.

I don't think you will be able to re-cell it yourself, unless you have a spot welder. There are people that can do this for you though, but it's a last resort.

A bigger battery should cure the problem, but without having performed the tests with a watt meter it's just a guess.

A meter like this (no idea about this seller, just an illustration)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252242300442

Then find a way to connect it between battery and motor.

The result should confirm that the present battery is too small.

 

[anotherkiwi]

A 36 V battery will fix your problem if the controller can handle 36 V.

 

[Alan Quay]

A 36 V battery will fix your problem if the controller can handle 36 V.

It may do. It may burn out the controller or motor.

But if you are brave, why not chuck the battery from your other bike (guessing 36v) on it and see if it improves.

It'll certainly go faster, but that may not be what you want to happen.

 

[soundwave]

http://www.ecycleuk.com/home

they might be able to help you out.

 

[Boblet666]

It may do. It may burn out the controller or motor.

But if you are brave, why not chuck the battery from your other bike (guessing 36v) on it and see if it improves.

It'll certainly go faster, but that may not be what you want to happen.

Many thanks for the tip...it was daunting to think I could blow the motor but I'm desperate. Anyway I set the Di Blasi up with its original battery, lifted the powered wheel from the floor and twisted the throttle. The way the motor works, is by staging power at intervals in steps....starts low, then steps up, then up again etc. I noted the highest pitch it reached on the 24v 9amp battery and disconnected it.

Next, I took my 36v 10Ah battery from my other bike and connected it up, crossed my fingers, put them in my ears and twisted the throttle. The motor worked, the torque was greater and the speed increased by around 30-35%. The pitch stepped up as normal, but went through at least two additional increases over that of the 24v 9Ah battery.

Road test.....The bike had more pull, and went faster on throttle only.

We ran it for around 5 minutes and checked felt the motor for heat...it seemed cool to the touch (well the housing did anyway).

After that, I removed both batteries and used a multimeter to check the voltage of each. The 24v read 28v, the 36v read 41v.

Feeling cocky, I then tried each battery on the DC Amps setting on the multimeter. Neither battery were under load, I just connected the terminals across them. The 24v battery read at 4.1 Amps, the 36v read at 6.2 Amps. Not sure what this means at all, but the result was that the bike went faster, and was stronger with the 36v on the 24v 250w motor.

Am I right in thinking the motor would be able to cope with this increased load over a sustained period? I'm tempted to simply buy another 36v battery and use that in the belief that a higher amp 24v battery would give me more torque, but not more speed. Both speed and torque are important. If I blow the motor over time, I can replace it (250 pounds) with a kit from a UK supplier.

 

[anotherkiwi]

The controller will go long before the motor I think. As the capacitor of the controller didn't blow during your road test you are probably good to go.

 

[JuicyBike]

Your 24 V controller will (should ) have a cut -off voltage at, say, 20 volts or so.
Hopefully your 36 V battery will also have a cut off at 31/32 volts.
If the battery cut -off is missing then you run the risk of running the battery down too far.
But that's unlikely and a minimal risk IMO

 

[anotherkiwi]

Forgot to put that bit in, sorry. You didn't show us what your 36 V battery looks like.

 

[Boblet666]

Sorry, forgot to add the battery picture....it's one of these:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lithium-Ion-Battery-Pedelec-Electric-Prophete/dp/B00TOFE6S4/ref=pd_sim_sbs_23_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=1ZT7ZDHYERSGWGDV62Q8