Alien bikes - ceased trading
- Thread starter rustic
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C
Cyclezee
Guest
Just to clarify, OnBike is still a thriving business and Martin, one of the guys often contributes to the forum.
my take on the dynamics of the market is different. Lots of shops already have websites and internet sales, you can't split sellers into these two categories.
People will walk into shops but most will walk out again and place their order later on the net when they are not under pressure.
Internet sales will grow while shop sales will dwindle as the market develops, a growing percentage of customers will not need to go to the shop because they already know about e-bikes, someone they know may have let them have a go or it's their second or third bike. We've seen this with items of similar prices, TVs and laptops.
As d8veh pointed out, sellers need to keep their wares fresh and shops are just too slow to react, they will become gradually a drain on resources.
Trex,i find myself taking the opposite view to yourself on some subjects,,,whilst I agree that a Sony Bravia TV is the same whether you buy it from a local dealer or the internet,because it's the same TV,so price wins...actually I have just bought a new TV and paid a little more from a local supplier,because he installed it,set it up with all the channels.
But e-bikes are a bit different,if you go into a proper (those that have stock and knowledge)e-bike shop he should be able to recommend a suitable bike,let you have a test ride,suggest an alternative,until you have the right bike to suit. That right bike is not necessarily available from a cheap internet e-bike supplier,if you take the cheapie you are really going back to square one and not necessarily will be as pleased with the right bike you rode in the shop.
Also,how do you service the internet cheapie if something goes wrong with the bike,the local dealer will be invaluable in times of trouble.
I don't see the better brands like KTM heavily discounted on the internet,so there seems little point going aside from the local dealer.
KudosDave
But e-bikes are a bit different,if you go into a proper (those that have stock and knowledge)e-bike shop he should be able to recommend a suitable bike,let you have a test ride,suggest an alternative,until you have the right bike to suit. That right bike is not necessarily available from a cheap internet e-bike supplier,if you take the cheapie you are really going back to square one and not necessarily will be as pleased with the right bike you rode in the shop.
Also,how do you service the internet cheapie if something goes wrong with the bike,the local dealer will be invaluable in times of trouble.
I don't see the better brands like KTM heavily discounted on the internet,so there seems little point going aside from the local dealer.
KudosDave
I think the ebike market is quite similar to the new car market in some respects....I wouldn't dream of buying a new car without seeing it and driving it first-even though I can be fairly certain of what I'm going to get, I still want to experience it for myself before parting with the dosh.
Most of our customers would appear to agree with that too, as around 80% (roughly -not done the actual maths) of our customers are walk in customers that generally buy on the day or on a repeat visit.There are others of course that we see year after year, that still haven't made their minds up!
A well stocked showroom is an essential, as you just can't get the same experience from looking at specs on a screen...though It is an essential "Shop Window" in the much vaster community we all find ourselves living in these days.
I think that ebike sales will be bucking the trend of Internet commerce for some time to come.
T.V's and Laptops are completely different in my opinion, as they are much less personal belongings- they can't not fit you, or make you sore or give satisfaction....you just can't feel passionate about a TV like you can with a Bike, or Car even.
Onbike closed the Presteigne shop in June 2012..the Kidderminster branch is in a much more central position and is always open for business (well, 4 days a week), and will celebrate it's 6th successful year trading later this year.
We're very lucky to be working within such an exciting trade which seems to be ever developing and transforming, where you get to have your hobby as your job, meeting great people from all walks of life and all regions of the U.K.
I agree but the Presteigne-Kidderminster location is hardly concentrated population,it just needs a good dealer even in a low populated area to generate interest,albeit from a wider radius. I suspect you have a good customer base in the Milton Keynes area just as I have in East Kent.
Martin,I agree,except your comment about cars....you can try a Vauxhall Astra at your local dealer then buy the identical vehicle perhaps £4000 cheaper from one of these internet supply companies.
But the e-bike marketplace is different,the profits are just not big enough and the market is not big enough for a cheap grey style import market to exist,so customers of e-bikes tend to place emphasis on good local support rather than saving a few pounds on the internet.
I have come to the conclusion that buying e-bikes is a local business,that situation will exist until the market grows to a size like non assisted bikes and then a heavy discounter like Wiggle may succeed but that appears a distant possibility.
We'll done with On-Bike in developing an e-bike market in a very lowly populated area.
KudosDave
Maybe I'm a bit weird
, but I just wouldn't hand over a large sum of money for a car I haven't personally driven on the promise from a Salesman that it performs as others just like it....
Mind you, I wouldn't buy a brand new car anyway-3 sons and a hairy dog make it pointless, nevermind depreciation etc.
, but I just wouldn't hand over a large sum of money for a car I haven't personally driven on the promise from a Salesman that it performs as others just like it....Mind you, I wouldn't buy a brand new car anyway-3 sons and a hairy dog make it pointless, nevermind depreciation etc.
I suppose this proves how obtuse I am. My Delite was bought unseen & untested but is the best bike I could have had. Not quite a blind purchase, I had tested a lot and could compare some with others, but I had faith with my dealer of choice. I don't think they would have let me go with it if they didn't think the same. Not anything I could recommend for anyone else though.
C
Cyclezee
Guest
Less than 20 miles from the centre of Birmingham
I'm sad about Alienocean. I always found Jim extremely helpful; even though I never bought a complete kit from him, he helped me out by selling me a controller, a hub motor and three batteries (all at different times).
I started off buying a bike from 50 cycles. My next e-bike was from a tiny one-man trader. Then I bought used bikes from Ebay, and now I'm building my own to the spec I want.
I think the ebike business is in its infancy. Developments in electric cars will help the ebike technology along, and the much nicer legal situation in the USA is going to lead to a big boom in that country. But of course, it's China that is the important factor, both in production and consumption.
I started off buying a bike from 50 cycles. My next e-bike was from a tiny one-man trader. Then I bought used bikes from Ebay, and now I'm building my own to the spec I want.
I think the ebike business is in its infancy. Developments in electric cars will help the ebike technology along, and the much nicer legal situation in the USA is going to lead to a big boom in that country. But of course, it's China that is the important factor, both in production and consumption.
Parallel there with the executive car market, where a lot of sales are made without a test drive.
Buyers of supermini hatchbacks, however, go to the nth degree of price, spec, warranty, how round the tyres are, etc, etc,
German ebay is full of brand new e-bikes and it's not just ebay and amazon. When you look at the numbers: 154 bike shops listed in pedelecs database, 500 in the A2B magazine. There are already too many shops selling old models and customers are primarily interested in new models. Shops are very useful but when it comes to parting with money, internet wins.
Martin, if you could have taken the money from 80% of your shop visitors on the same day as you said, you would have bought a boat bigger than dave's.
...or reinvested the money back into the business to be able to supply the latest models?
Trex, we don't sell ANY bikes over the Internet as we don't operate an e-commerce site....and as I said, we don't sell that many bikes as blind sales over the phone.
Genuinely our bulk business is walk-in customers that have done the research and need to try the bikes, and though I'm sure some use us as a test facility and then make their purchase elsewhere, the majority buy through us.
Incidentally, I don't mind test pilots that much, as they are still raising awareness of the products after their purchase, and are quite likely to tell people where they can come and try an ebike-which will hopefully end in another sale for us.
It's not just about the product, but about how well you can look after the consumer to keep them coming back.
Trex, we don't sell ANY bikes over the Internet as we don't operate an e-commerce site....and as I said, we don't sell that many bikes as blind sales over the phone.
Genuinely our bulk business is walk-in customers that have done the research and need to try the bikes, and though I'm sure some use us as a test facility and then make their purchase elsewhere, the majority buy through us.
Incidentally, I don't mind test pilots that much, as they are still raising awareness of the products after their purchase, and are quite likely to tell people where they can come and try an ebike-which will hopefully end in another sale for us.
It's not just about the product, but about how well you can look after the consumer to keep them coming back.
It's a mistake to think the legal situation for e-bikes is much better in the USA, in many ways it's worse and often much worse:
All the details on this link
.
I can not comment at this time but I will soon, and yes I work for Alien and before that Synergie.
Trex,my boat certainly did not come from selling e-bikes.
In this we agree that in Germany and Holland the e-bike market is fiercely competitive...I have a friend in Holland who sells over 10000 e-bikes per annum,all over the internet,they get delivered and serviced by Fieds Net,a mobile national service company. In Germany e-bay is very competitive...I think someone put some very cheap prices on Kalkhoff e-bikes from an internet trader near Stuttgart. But the market in those countries is already mature,it's like the Sony TV....if you know the TV you want or the e-bike you want then buying it over the internet is no surprise,you get the bike you know you want....but the UK is not there yet,maybe in 5 years time if the market expands and us traders will no doubt adapt.
KudosDave
That applied to me with the AVE I've just bought.
The shop - C H White in Malmesbury, Wilts - offered me a test ride.
As an experience ebiker, I knew within about 100 yards the bike was a good 'un and suitable for my requirements.
Didn't want to appear too keen, though, so I went for a tootle around the town before taking it back.
Their download page is still live - any owners wanting manuals/wiring diagrams should download quickly before the site is taken down:
http://www.alienbikes.co.uk/page22.htm
if the downloads page gets closed just pm me I still have them all on file.
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