Advice sought for a new bike would be welcome

[MaryinScotland]

Also Hall effect throttles are almost like on-off switches, so most e-bikers are holding their throttle fully open all the time, which requires more force than holding it half open.

Ah, that might explain why I got on well with the Heinzmann - it was not a Hall effect, but a brushed motor. The way I rode it was to pedal unassisted on the flat, bring on a little power for a slight slope or headwind, and only have it full-on for serious hills.

 

[pwylie]

I did look at the nano a while ago & emailed the guys at nano without a reply - a common theme I found having been ignored also by electriccyclecompany also (although 50cycles have been great at answering queries). I think the nano might be a little slow too although I got quite excited about it reading about it in AtoB.

The Heinzmann system really does appeal - as much because Kinetics is close to me & I could easily return the bike to base if there was a problem. It looks very dear based on my understanding of their latest prices (£1350 just for the kit).

Have just noticed someone has posted an ad for a powacycle windsor in gumtree in Edinburgh at £350 which might be a cheap way of dipping the toe in the water - if the battery has reasonable life left in it. I could ebay it afterwards if I wanted to trade up.

A chipped windscreen & a flat tyre on a single trip in my mini this week has encouraged me to take a step forward soon re a purchase. Having a parking space since December at my office makes it too easy to take the car rather than hoping on either the brompton or my courier race and using pedal power.

I shall post again on this thread when I make my mind up.

Thanks once more for your interest & advice.

 

[frank9755]

Getting a cheaper second hand bike is a good way to learn more about your needs, what an electric bike can do and thereby help you make a better decision in the end.

I've used my wife's Windsor for my fairly flat commute and it is not a bad bike. On flattish ground it is not as slow as many writers suggest, and gave me a very good range (30+ miles). Also A to B report it is faster up moderate hills than their Panasonic-powered Lafree.

Having said that £350 is not an out and out bargain, considering a new Windsor is £475-500, depending on where you buy from.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

905Se

Hi Frank

Thanks as always for your kind comments, one thing I would say though, I am 5'6" with an inside leg of 28" and the saddle post is not anywhere near it's lowest when I ride it, I find it very comfortable.

It is a big bike but even Doug's 14 year old daughter does not have a problem riding it.

All the best David

 

[emotivepete]

The Heinzmann system really does appeal - as much because Kinetics is close to me & I could easily return the bike to base if there was a problem. It looks very dear based on my understanding of their latest prices (£1350 just for the kit).

The price you quote for the Heinzmann kit seems a bit high. Kinetics are currently showing kits starting from £975 for an e-bike rear wheel kit with Li-Ion 5.2Ah (£985 for front wheel). Maybe you have added some extras on but you shouldn't be paying that much for the basic kit.

 

[essexman]

I'd guess if speed is the key aim, you'll need the classic features that aid speed:
-Rigid frame and no suspension (reduce energy wastage)
-Skinny tyres and wheels (reduce road resistance)
-Drop handlebars and lycra kit (reduce wind resistance)

Is there a vehicle on the market thats designed for speed? I dont think anyone makes this bike yet do they?

Most ebikes make great workhorses for shopping and short commuting. I know very little about this market, but no-one is making an audax style ebike are they? If someone came on ctc forum and said they wanted to commute 12 miles i'd say get a light tourer or an audax bike. Strong, practical and fast. Maybe the way to go would be to get one of these and retrofit a hub motor, with the battery on the top of the rear rack? These type of bikes are designed to carry weight front and rear, so i cant see the weight hurting the ride.

Am i being naive?

 

[HarryB]

I'd guess if speed is the key aim, you'll need the classic features that aid speed:
-Rigid frame and no suspension (reduce energy wastage)
-Skinny tyres and wheels (reduce road resistance)
-Drop handlebars and lycra kit (reduce wind resistance)

Is there a vehicle on the market thats designed for speed? I dont think anyone makes this bike yet do they?

Most ebikes make great workhorses for shopping and short commuting. I know very little about this market, but no-one is making an audax style ebike are they? If someone came on ctc forum and said they wanted to commute 12 miles i'd say get a light tourer or an audax bike. Strong, practical and fast. Maybe the way to go would be to get one of these and retrofit a hub motor, with the battery on the top of the rear rack? These type of bikes are designed to carry weight front and rear, so i cant see the weight hurting the ride.

Am i being naive?

But all legal kits, ebikes etc run out of puff at 25 kph (15.9 mph) so all the weight saving comes to nothing unless you are going up a hill. We are talking about averaging 16 mph so more important is the resistance of the motor above the 25 kph limit and that is where the Kahlkoffs and Tongxins/nanos come into their own. But in the end if you are after speed on the flat best to stick to a lightweight unassisted bicycle ... that is if you want to stick to the legal route.

 

[pwylie]

Re the Heinzmann the price the website generated was £1,320, based on a 9.6ah front hub pedelec £1,265 & £55 for a wheel build. This looks like the most powerfull set up for me.

I struggle with the legal issue - given the fact that speeding for car borne traffic is the rule rather than the exception & the number of cars currently on UK roads without insurance or MOT.

My exisiting road bike is fairly light - 11.5kgs, with no suspension & thin tyres on 28" rims. It has a simple 8 gear set up.

The test drive issue is the reall killer for me. Whichever way I go it looks like I will spend over £1,000. I don't buy a pair of trousers for £20 without trying them on first! I'd hate for fork out that amount of cash & find no noticeable change in journey time - although if I didn't need to shower after each journey this would save 10 mins.

 

[HarryB]

I struggle with the legal issue - given the fact that speeding for car borne traffic is the rule rather than the exception & the number of cars currently on UK roads without insurance or MOT.

If you are not worried about staying legal then you have many more options but you will probably be steered towards a kit or second hand Torq 1. A ride on a Torq will give you an idea of what a fast electric bike is like. Test riding a kit might prove problematic as it will be very different, depending as much on the donor bike as anything else.

 

[Kal]

My theory is that it is not so much that e-bike throttles are particularly bad, its that while pedalling on a bike you are either pushing or pulling on the handlebars in a way that you don't do on a motorbike. Also Hall effect throttles are almost like on-off switches, so most e-bikers are holding their throttle fully open all the time, which requires more force than holding it half open.
It's good that your Heinzmann was better - and it conflicts with my theory - but I wouldn't risk a throttle only bike if I was going to do long distances on it, with few stops.

That's interesting... I didn't realize Hall effect throttles were "almost like on-off switches."

The throttle on my Synergie Mistral, which has a rear brushed hub motor, is very light and controls the power very smoothly and progressively. Having complete control of the throttle this e-bike can be ridden without pedalling, if not too hilly, from walking pace up to 15mph, if so desired. This e-bike pulls away without any unwanted surge of power making riding the bike safer in many instances, and this is particularly useful when cycling along paths shared with walkers. Throttle is always available so can be used in conjunction with "E" economy mode or "S" sport mode. It's this perfectly smooth controllability above all that makes the Mistral a joy to to ride.
.

 

[flecc]

That's interesting... I didn't realize Hall effect throttles were "almost like on-off switches."

The throttle on my Synergie Mistral, which has a rear brushed hub motor, is very light and controls the power very smoothly and progressively. Having complete control of the throttle this e-bike can be ridden without pedalling, if not too hilly, from walking pace up to 15mph, if so desired. This e-bike pulls away without any unwanted surge of power making riding the bike safer in many instances, and this is particularly useful when cycling along paths shared with walkers. Throttle is always available so can be used in conjunction with "E" economy mode or "S" sport mode. It's this perfectly smooth controllability above all that makes the Mistral a joy to to ride.
.

Brush motors are indeed easy to control smoothly, as Mary remarked about the Heinzmann too.

Hall effect motors have many advantages, but fine control using Hall effect throttles is a weakness. This could be improved, but the solution would be more expensive than the simple Hall sensor throttle.
.

 

[MaryinScotland]

This thread has been very informative to me, too, re brushed vs. Hall-effect.

Although my previous Heinzmann kit setup had some drawbacks, I always liked the throttle control, and I finally (sort of!) understand why. I may well look to the Heinzmann Estelle range for my next bike.

Mary

 

[UrbanPuma]

Surely that depends on the design of the throttle? My Urban Mover throttle is not especially user-friendly, as it has quite a strong spring, and is only wide enough for a finger-and-thumb grip. But the twist-grip on the Heinzmann that I used to have was no problem. It was a full-hand grip, and perfectly comfortable. And, after all, every motorcyclist uses a hand throttle 100% of the time.

I've seen other people comment on wrist-strain from e-bike throttles. Are they all that bad? Can't the makers borrow technology that works from motorcycles?

Mary

Hi Mary,

My Powacycle Puma doesnt cause any wrist-strain when holding the throttle open and the system works in combination with pedelec mode so I am not reliant on using the throttle. It can be used at my convenience whilst still getting the benefits of exercise by using the bike in pedelec mode at all times.

UrbanPuma

 

[ARbiker]

Hello All,

It's good to be on this forum and learning a lot! Does anyone know of OHM bikes? They are listed at OHM | Ride like this ™ . Anyone have one of these units?

Thanks,
Clay

PS: With the high gas in the U.S. we need E-bikes or we will soon be in the poor house!!!

 

[Cyclezee]

Hello All,

It's good to be on this forum and learning a lot! Does anyone know of OHM bikes? They are listed at OHM | Ride like this ™ . Anyone have one of these units?

Thanks,
Clay

PS: With the high gas in the U.S. we need E-bikes or we will soon be in the poor house!!!

Hi gas in the US, don't make me laugh Clay In the UK we are now paying the equivalent of $10 per imperial gallon

John

 

[ARbiker]

Hi gas in the US, don't make me laugh Clay In the UK we are now paying the equivalent of $10 per imperial gallon

John

Hello John,

We in the U.S. are well aware that people in England and all of Europe are paying a much higher price for fuel. I however did not realize it was quite as high as $8.33 per our gallon. Wow!!!

I think it works out about the same in the end. We have much greater distances to travel on average. Next week a member of my family will travel 200 miles round trip to visit a doctor/specialist. Most in Europe would not travel more than 100 miles round trip I would imagine.

Another issue are our vehicles. For years the U.S. has purchased horribly inefficient vehicles. The V8 Chevy pickup comes to mind. GM must work for the oil companies??? Our habits in the U.S. will be forced to change. The time when one person road around in a gas guzzler V8 just for pleasure will cease rather quickly. Years ago people would ride 4 or 500 miles on a weekend just riding around. Not now!!!

Things are changing on both sides of the pond.

Take Care All,
Clay

 

[Cyclezee]

Hi again Clay,

In the UK we may not travel so many miles as you do in the US, but we drive faster, the 70 mph national speed limit is only adhered to when a police car is visible and we spend a lot of time sitting in traffic jams with engines running.
Last September I spent 2 weeks touring New England in a V6, covering 2300 miles and think how cheap gas was, however not as cheap as several years ago when I remember paying 99 cents for a gallon!
Over here a own a 2 litre Mercedes turdo diesel with CVT auto transmission. I tend to drive more sensibly and economically than I used to, even at 70 mph I can get over 50 mpg, my record is 58 mpg. Very similar figures to the supposedly green Toyota Prius.

John

 

[Larkspur]

Hello All,

It's good to be on this forum and learning a lot! Does anyone know of OHM bikes? They are listed at OHM | Ride like this ™ . Anyone have one of these units?

Thanks,
Clay

PS: With the high gas in the U.S. we need E-bikes or we will soon be in the poor house!!!

They certainly look look like nice quality, well made bikes Clay. The design is clean and aesthetically pleasing which tends to suggest that the manufacturer has invested in the product. I checked their dealer network and they don't have a distributor in the UK (though they are available in Germany), which is probably why I haven't seen the name mentioned on this forum before.

In my opinion it would definitely be worth investigating further. Perhaps someone more informed than myself would care to comment on the components used. I noticed that they use 250w and 350w BionX motors, which I think are generally well thought of around here. The Busch & Muller lights are the same make that are fitted to high quality Kalhoff bikes (good sign).

Chris

 

[frank9755]

Hi Frank

Thanks as always for your kind comments, one thing I would say though, I am 5'6" with an inside leg of 28" and the saddle post is not anywhere near it's lowest when I ride it, I find it very comfortable.

It is a big bike but even Doug's 14 year old daughter does not have a problem riding it.

All the best David

David,
The issue is standover height rather than saddle adjustment. The measurement from the 'W' of Works written on the crossbar to the ground. [edit - I've just measured it at 31.5"]
I ride with the saddle on quite a high position for pedalling efficiency. But when I stop the bike and put my feet on the ground there is no clearance between the crossbar and my crotch. On that basis, I wouldn't recommend it for anyone shorter than me (5'8 / 30" inside leg).
Other versions with smaller forks may have slightly more clearance, but the combination of high bottom bracket and curved crossbar reduce standover hieght relative to a traditional or modern compact frame.
Frank