Advice please on a replacement controller.

[D C]

My controller seems to have finally given up the ghost today, or at least that's what I think is wrong.
My bike cut out a couple of times late last summer on longish climbs and the controller was almost to hot to touch. The motor has never got hot or even warm.
Today it's cutting out every few hundred yards, it's not hot, just warm and starts up again if I disconnect power and then reconnect, but only for a short distance.
The 36 volt battery is fine and is fully charged at slightly over 42 volts, all wire connections are good and I've tried a spare throttle with no improvement.
I have throttle only, no pedal assist or display and don't use the brakes cut outs.
I'm happy to buy a new controller even if the fault turns out to be something else (nice to have spares) but wondering if there is an alternative to buying from Cyclotricity as around £60 seems a little on the high side but maybe I'm wrong in thinking that.

This is a picture of my existing controller before I fitted the kit almost four years back.
I'm not a genius with electrics as you may guess from the tone of this post and don't want to get into opening up the controller with my 69 year old non too steady hands. Any advice on a replacement will be much appreciated.
Edited to say I'm OK with soldering.
Dave.

 

[Alan Quay]

Looks like a pretty standard controller to me, with the display section shorted (presumably as not present)

I would think a KU65 or S06p from BMS battery would do the job.

Before ordering a new one though, it's worth checking for a short on the phase wires. Those plastic bullet crimps have a habit of failing, getting hot and melting the insulation, resulting in a hot controller.

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[Deleted member 4366]

Thats Kunteng sinewave controller, more or less identical to a S06S that you can get from BMSBattery. The connectors are slightly different, so you have to check the sequence of the wires in them. I'd get the LCD too, which adds a lot more functionality to the controller. The Price of the controller plus LCD is about £60 including delivery. You can also find derivatives on Aliexpress. I think I've seen them there identical to yours.

 

[raymee]

Electricbike Conversions in Hertfordshire stock these

 

[D C]

Thanks very much for the replies.

Alan, good thinking, the crimps on mine did exactly as you say about 18 months back and I soldered them at that time, they have been OK since.

Dave, thanks for the lead to BMS, the S06S is labelled as "Torque Simulator" is this OK for me?

After a while Googling I found this on Panda bikes and wonder if it would be OK, maybe deliver a bit quicker than BMS?

http://www.pandaebikes.com/product/electric-bicycle-ebike-brushless-motor-controller-24v-36v-250w-hall-sensor/


I also wonder if I should go for this if it would be suitable, seems a reasonable price for a hopefully quick delivery

http://www.pandaebikes.com/product/diy-electric-bicycle-e-bike-kit-lcd-display-controller-throttle-pas-brakes-2/

As ever, I'm very grateful for help and advice.
Dave.

 

[KirstinS]

I've had this a few times same as others have mentioned

And it's been dodgy phase bullet connections.

I'd cut them off and solder directly . If you can solder then there is a good chance this will solve the issue with no cost !

Nothing to lose really

 

[D C]

I've had this a few times same as others have mentioned

And it's been dodgy phase bullet connections.

I'd cut them off and solder directly . If you can solder then there is a good chance this will solve the issue with no cost !

Nothing to lose really

Thanks Kirsten, I've actually done this so all joints except throttle are soldered and have worked fine for a good while.
I will re-check them.
I emailed Panda to ask for advice but so far only an auto reply, maybe they are behind after bank holiday break.
I've just emailed Electric Bike Conversions asking if they have a suitable controller.
The S06S recommended by Dave and Alan is labelled as "Torque Simulator" so I don't know if this would be OK for me.
Dave.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The S06S is exactly the same controller as the Panda Bikes one. Torque simulation means current control. On these controllers, you can switch between speed control and current control in the settings. Current control gives a fixed current for each PAS level. Speed control gives a fixed maximum speed at each level. Most people prefer current control.

You're missing a lot of the advantages that these controllers give by not using a PAS. I'd highly recommend fitting one.

I think your problem is more likely coming from your battery. How old is it? What type is it?

 

[D C]

I think your problem is more likely coming from your battery. How old is it? What type is it?

Thanks for the reply and the explanation of torque simulation being current control, I didn't know that.
The battery is actually 3 years old (not 4 as the typo in my first post) and the problem of cutting out started after about 18 miles of light use and with the battery still showing 38 volts which has not been normal behaviour in the past.
I've checked that after cutting out and whilst still cut out there's power flowing from the battery to the controller.
.

I've since charged it up, charger shut off at 41 volts and I've just used it for a couple of miles with full throttle and no cutting out at all. It's now 40 volts, dropping to around 38 volts under full throttle on level ground, so what you say about it perhaps being a battery problem seems very likely.
There are no obvious broken or loose connections and the battery key switch seems to work OK.
I was aware that batteries can be on the way out after 3 years or so but didn't realise that the deterioration could be so sudden.

Maybe I should just get a new battery, perhaps a down tube battery this time for better weight distribution.
Any battery suggestions or recommendations please?

I hope I've been explaining all this OK as I'm not sure of technical terms etc.
I much appreciate all the help.

Dave.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Make an opportunity out of a crisis. Get a nice down tube battery.

 

[D C]

Make an opportunity out of a crisis. Get a nice down tube battery.

Good thinking!
Problem seems to be no stock anywhere
Dave.

 

[Alan Quay]

Good thinking!
Problem seems to be no stock anywhere
Dave.

Yes, this stock issue is a right PITA.

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[D C]

A new down tube battery has fixed the problem and has much improved the bike balance.
Thanks to everyone for the advice, and to Dave for a spot on diagnosis.
Dave.

 

[D C]

Just to finally wind up the thread and give a little feed back, I also bought a new controller, LCD, PAS and wiring kit from Panda Bikes (who are very nice and helpful folk to deal with) similar to the one I linked to but with separate wires.
Slightly more expensive than BMS but speedy delivery and advice with great support when there was a slight delivery glitch, which wasn't their fault.

Its now installed and seems to show that my original controller was also a bit dodgy as the new one hardly gets hot whereas the original was getting too hot to touch even with light use.
Fingers crossed now for another few trouble free years.

I notice that the KT LCD 1 display doesn't register speed or distance when free wheeling down hill, not a bother to me but I wonder if this is normal?

Dave.

 

[awol]

I notice that the KT LCD 1 display doesn't register speed or distance when free wheeling down hill, not a bother to me but I wonder if this is normal?

I believe this is normal when the speed displayed is taken from some type of sensor inside the motor and not from a typical external speedo sensor wire on the front wheel.
There may be options to switch speed sensing methods in the display settings?

 

[Swytch Bike]

Just to finally wind up the thread and give a little feed back, I also bought a new controller, LCD, PAS and wiring kit from Panda Bikes (who are very nice and helpful folk to deal with) similar to the one I linked to but with separate wires.
Slightly more expensive than BMS but speedy delivery and advice with great support when there was a slight delivery glitch, which wasn't their fault.

Its now installed and seems to show that my original controller was also a bit dodgy as the new one hardly gets hot whereas the original was getting too hot to touch even with light use.
Fingers crossed now for another few trouble free years.

I notice that the KT LCD 1 display doesn't register speed or distance when free wheeling down hill, not a bother to me but I wonder if this is normal?

Dave.

Hi Dave

The speed is worked out from the electrics in the controller - how often it changes motor phase to keep the wheel spinning. If you are going down hill without motor power then it won't be able to detect speed. IF you have a motor with a dedicated speed sensor then you'll be ablge to get this data when freewheeling.

 

[Swytch Bike]

Thanks Kirsten, I've actually done this so all joints except throttle are soldered and have worked fine for a good while.
I will re-check them.
I emailed Panda to ask for advice but so far only an auto reply, maybe they are behind after bank holiday break.
I've just emailed Electric Bike Conversions asking if they have a suitable controller.
The S06S recommended by Dave and Alan is labelled as "Torque Simulator" so I don't know if this would be OK for me.
Dave.

Hi Dave

Did you get the support you needed on this?

Regards

 

[D C]

Hi Dave

Did you get the support you needed on this?

Regards

Yes I did, thanks.
My email had ended up in Maria's spam folder (maybe because I attached a couple of photos) but once found was attended to promptly and efficiently.
Thanks for all the help and excellent service.
I wonder if it's possible to fit an external speedo sensor wire and if so can I buy one from you?
No problem if not, it's the distance traveled that's most useful to me and I can read that from my trusty old cycle computer.

Dave.

 

[Alan Quay]

Yes I did, thanks.
My email had ended up in Maria's spam folder (maybe because I attached a couple of photos) but once found was attended to promptly and efficiently.
Thanks for all the help and excellent service.
I wonder if it's possible to fit an external speedo sensor wire and if so can I buy one from you?
No problem if not, it's the distance traveled that's most useful to me and I can read that from my trusty old cycle computer.

Dave.

Blimey, what did you send her pictures of?

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[Swytch Bike]

Blimey, what did you send her pictures of?

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Some really filthy bikes maybe?