advice on BBSHD and alternatives to build a touring/hybrid bike

[mephisto]

Hey guys,

I'm planning to build something similar looking to a Kudos Stealth https://www.kudoscycles.com/product_info.php?cPath=1&products_id=353 as I want a frame that is something between a road bike and a touring bike as I normally just ride road bikes.

So far my research has been leading me to get a BBSHD with 48v 15A+ battery. I think I can get the power as I peddle without having to use a twist of thumb throttle, right?

Do you guys have any suggestions?

 

[anotherkiwi]

You don't need a HD on a road/touring bike a 350W BBS02 is plenty. A GSM from Woosh will do 42-45 km/h on the flat with a 36v battery and a 15 A external controller (tested by me), it probably weighs about 2 kg less than the BBSHD. Take the same, add a 17 A controller and a 48v battery and you will have a 45 km/h bike that is relatively stealthy and doesn't weigh too much.

Hills? You just need to work on the gearing a bit, I have problems keeping the front wheel on the ground...

 

[Woosh]

if you are not in a hurry, I'll get the Tongsheng TSDZ2 in 48V in early October.
It's a 80NM 3.6kgs CD motor with torque sensor.

 

[awol]

Planetx London Road. Nice and lightweight frame, they also do this as a flat bar version but not listed it at the moment.
https://www.planetx.co.uk/c/q/bikes/road-bikes/london-road

or for a more upright riding style the Cannondale Quick CX although has front sus so is a bit heavier.
https://www.evanscycles.com/cannondale-quick-cx-4-2018-hybrid-bike-EV280392

 

[Fordulike]

Totally agree with @anotherkiwi. A BBSHD is overkill for what you want

 

[Nealh]

GSM external dual volt controller use 36 or 48v or use both on along ride one at a time.
Easy to replace controller if an issue occurs and also advantage of fitting external pas if the internal one fails.

 

[mephisto]

You don't need a HD on a road/touring bike a 350W BBS02 is plenty. A GSM from Woosh will do 42-45 km/h on the flat with a 36v battery and a 15 A external controller (tested by me), it probably weighs about 2 kg less than the BBSHD. Take the same, add a 17 A controller and a 48v battery and you will have a 45 km/h bike that is relatively stealthy and doesn't weigh too much.

Hills? You just need to work on the gearing a bit, I have problems keeping the front wheel on the ground...

Yeah I understand it may be a very good fit, but I'm thinking that later on if I want to use the motor on another bike to have some fun then I have the proper kit already

Planetx London Road. Nice and lightweight frame, they also do this as a flat bar version but not listed it at the moment.
https://www.planetx.co.uk/c/q/bikes/road-bikes/london-road

or for a more upright riding style the Cannondale Quick CX although has front sus so is a bit heavier.
https://www.evanscycles.com/cannondale-quick-cx-4-2018-hybrid-bike-EV280392

Thanks for the suggestions, I actually have a planetx road bike that I use for daily commute, it was very good value for a carbon fibre frame.

 

[mephisto]

I'm considering the price difference and the potential to play with an offroad bike later with the BBSHD getting the kit from em3ev. I may actually convert a spare mountain bike I have here instead of playing with a road bike

 

[Woosh]

Thanks for the suggestions, I actually have a planetx road bike that I use for daily commute, it was very good value for a carbon fibre frame.

The BBSHD is very capable but because it can pull a lot of power, the battery needs to be also capable, that means your budget will rise, then you need braking power and suspension to go with it.
to make your project easier for us to understand where you are heading, post some pictures of your bike as it is at the moment.

 

[mephisto]

I'm thinking about a 52v 15ah using samsung 30Q cells, it can deliver 40A continuous.

I'll post a new topic as a project for the other bike I have, it makes more sense so other people can use as reference in the future easily

 

[richard beadle]

You may struggle to get a mid drive motor in your carbon frame, some carbon frames have beefed up bb so you may not have the clearance.

I have both the tongsheng 500w and bbs02b750w I'd choose the bbs02 over the tongseng any day, purely on build quality, operating noise and the colour display. I have the bbs02b fitted to a full sus giant yukon 2 and it will go up anything in fact I find it overkill at 750w but it is a lot of fun.

I use it for both offroading and my daily commute which is between 50 and 60 miles depending which site I'm working on. With a 48v 11.5ah from eclipse, I've managed 60 miles on one charge, when I forgot to take my charger with me doh, obviously i had to manage my power usage quite carefully.

With 44t chain ring I can easily get up to and just over 30mph, I now have a 36t lekkie bling ring on it which has reduced top speed but made the whole package easier to ride without power, if I fancy a bit of exercise.

I considered the bbshd long and hard but im glad i didnt spend the extra money now, its quite a chunk of extra weight to be carrying around with more power than you will ever need but if its pure fun factor then i can see the appeal but for me it's came down to pricing and the fact that psw power were shipping from an eu warehouse so no issues with vat/duty although I didn't have any issues with my tongsheng which came direct from China.

At the time the price was £320 with the 850c display and free delivery not sure what it is now, but bbshd is going to cost you roughly £530 from em3ev plus the danger of getting nailed for vat.

That is in no way a slight at em3ev they were so very helpful to me while I was researching my builds, they really seem like a top company, unlike a southern English firm that shall remain nameless, I tried to deal with and were anything but helpful, being told that someone your trying to spend a chunk of cash with "doesn't do phones" makes one wonder what the after sales is like and it would seem the chap in question can't even do emails either.

So my advice would be get a bbs02b you could get two bbs02 for the same price as one hd if you get slapped with vat, then you could convert both bikes or put a hub motor on the road bike.

 

[Woosh]

I have both the tongsheng 500w and bbs02 750w I'd choose the bbs02 over the tongseng any day, purely on build quality, operating noise and the colour display.

I hope to change that.
I've been selling BBS02 for many years and have now stopped selling them but stick with the BBS01B which I think is properly sorted.

 

[richard beadle]

Well good luck addressing those 3 issues.

Just to add I have covered over 5000 miles on my bbs02b and 4000 on the tongseng both without issues although the tongseng is noticeably more noisey even after re-greasing. I would also advise you get the after market socket/installation tool if you go for any of the bafangs it's a lot easier to get the ring on nice and tight, otherwise you will be constantly tightening it every 200 to 300 miles when it starts squeaking

 

[mephisto]

You may struggle to get a mid drive motor in your carbon frame, some carbon frames have beefed up bb so you may not have the clearance.

I have both the tongsheng 500w and bbs02b750w I'd choose the bbs02 over the tongseng any day, purely on build quality, operating noise and the colour display. I have the bbs02b fitted to a full sus giant yukon 2 and it will go up anything in fact I find it overkill at 750w but it is a lot of fun.

I use it for both offroading and my daily commute which is between 50 and 60 miles depending which site I'm working on. With a 48v 11.5ah from eclipse, I've managed 60 miles on one charge, when I forgot to take my charger with me doh, obviously i had to manage my power usage quite carefully.

With 44t chain ring I can easily get up to and just over 30mph, I now have a 36t lekkie bling ring on it which has reduced top speed but made the whole package easier to ride without power, if I fancy a bit of exercise.

I considered the bbshd long and hard but im glad i didnt spend the extra money now, its quite a chunk of extra weight to be carrying around with more power than you will ever need but if its pure fun factor then i can see the appeal but for me it's came down to pricing and the fact that psw power were shipping from an eu warehouse so no issues with vat/duty although I didn't have any issues with my tongsheng which came direct from China.

At the time the price was £320 with the 850c display and free delivery not sure what it is now, but bbshd is going to cost you roughly £530 from em3ev plus the danger of getting nailed for vat.

That is in no way a slight at em3ev they were so very helpful to me while I was researching my builds, they really seem like a top company, unlike a southern English firm that shall remain nameless, I tried to deal with and were anything but helpful, being told that someone your trying to spend a chunk of cash with "doesn't do phones" makes one wonder what the after sales is like and it would seem the chap in question can't even do emails either.

So my advice would be get a bbs02b you could get two bbs02 for the same price as one hd if you get slapped with vat, then you could convert both bikes or put a hub motor on the road bike.

very detailed information, thanks. You and a few more people have mentioned to stick with BBS02 as well, I'm beginning to think that indeed that may be best cost benefit with still some fun factor included. It is difficult to judge without having both but you guys have tons of experience and it seems more logical to lean towards the BBS02

 

[Woosh]

and the fact that psw power were shipping from an eu warehouse so no issues with vat/duty

I would be careful, Chinese businesses like them falsely declare a lower value for their goods to evade import duty and VAT. They say on their web page 'If you from Norway or Switzerland,we will declare value US$120 for motor'.
If the authorities get interested, they'd be pushed to close their business.

 

[richard beadle]

I would be careful, Chinese businesses like them falsely declare a lower value for their goods to evade import duty and VAT. They say on their web page 'If you from Norway or Switzerland,we will declare value US$120 for motor'.
If the authorities get interested, they'd be pushed to close their business.

Well it was shipped from Germany, so there is no reason to falsely declare anything more to the point who exactly is going to force them to close there business? Chinese companies regularly do this as a matter of course because it is so often requested by their foreign customers, so I'm not sure what axe you have to grind.

It's just a shame the UK company I wanted to deal with couldn't be bothered to respond to emails or phone calls, a real shame because over 2 grand of my hard earned went abroad. Perhaps if they spent less time trying to discredit other companies and more time on customer enquires, they wouldn't have to worry so much about foreign companies poaching their business. As a consumer you have to ask yourself why would i pay a premium price to be ignored, I may as well pay less for the same pathetic service no ?

 

[Woosh]

Well it was shipped from Germany, so there is no reason to falsely declare anything more to the point who exactly is going to force them to close there business?

let me explain the reasoning: whether you are registered for VAT or not, the seller has to keep accounts for VAT, he has to supply you with an invoice for the correct amount you paid, VAT must be charged at the correct rate. By making a false invoice to you, he evades tax.
He'll be in deep troubles if the authorities find out that he evades tax.

 

[richard beadle]

You would also know that it is a criminal offence for anyone that knows of a Vat fraud not to report it, so crack on son any excuse not to answer the phone

 

[Woosh]

You would also know that it is a criminal offence for anyone that knows of a Vat fraud not to report it, so crack on son any excuse not to answer the phone

I would have if they operated from the UK.
They work from China.

PS: you may not know this, but for example the goods you buy online is shipped by DHL.
As far as the courier is concerned, you are the importer.
As such, you are responsible for paying VAT either to the sending country or the UK.

 

[richard beadle]

Then you better report me hadn't you, but of course you realise that the vat has been paid on point of entry to the eu, you have I assume heard of fulfillment warehouses. As I said before if a certain uk business who's representative likes to talk himself up on this forum had been more interested in customer enquires than having an argument on said forum then we wouldn't be having this discussion.