Advice on bafang middrive please

[Tetleys]

Hi all
I would really appreciate some advice please.
Was thinking about buying a bafang midrive kit to install onto my hybrid bike and would love to hear from someone who has one to hear an honest review of it.
Iam considering the 500-750 watt range models for off road use mainly.
Apart from the obvious questions regarding relyability i want to know-1. Can the trottle be used whilst in pas mode at the same time for a quick boost like pulling off from a junction etc? Or do you have to switch off pas then use throttle then turn pas back on? 2. In pas mode is there a big lag before the motor kicks in from a stop or stanstill? And if so is there anything that can be done to reduce the lag? 3. Ive read that you can not change gears whilst the motor is running? Is this true? As i dont understand this as how is this possible in pas mode? And i would like to ride like a normal bike not stop start. Lastly...i have demo a carrera crossfire e bike 250 watt rear geared hob pas version. It was 75% perfect for me. The only downside was 1. I feel i need a throttle as well that can be used to overide the pas for pulling off. 2. The motor really struggled up a steep hill...iam a big chap and need a little bit more assistance and also riding on grass the motor really bogged down. If anyone knows of a small rear hub motor kit that would suit the requirements above plse let me know.
Many thanks

 

[Woosh]

1. Can the trottle be used whilst in pas mode at the same time for a quick boost like pulling off from a junction etc?

yes

2. The motor really struggled up a steep hill...iam a big chap and need a little bit more assistance and also riding on grass the motor really bogged down. If anyone knows of a small rear hub motor kit that would suit the requirements above plse let me know.

the 48V SWX02 kit would do that. It's not small but it's not heavier compared to a BBS02B kit.

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?hubkits#swx02-48v-kit

3. Ive read that you can not change gears whilst the motor is running? Is this true?

Yes and no. When the motor is running, your chain is under tension. If you change gear when the chain is under tension, the chain will straddle between cogs and it's not nice to the chain and cogs.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You didn't give a reason for wanting a BBSxx motor. A hub-motor might be a better option, but to answer your questions:

The throttle works however, whenever you want - just like a motorbike.
The PAS gives power as soon as you pedal and stops when you stop pedalling. you adjust its power by a separate control panel. It's like a cruise control that works whenever you pedal. The throttle takes precedence, so it overrides the PAS when you use it.

You can can get a gear-change sensor that goes on the shifter cable and cuts power when you shift gear. It's not a 100% solution, but makes shifting a lot better.

Em3ev.com and some other sellers, sell a version BBS02 stamped "250w 36v 25A". That means that it has the same power as a 500w BBS02, but is legal.

The Woosh 48v SWX02 hub-motor kit will most likely give you the extra torque you need.

 

[minexplorer]

Hi all
I would really appreciate some advice please.
Was thinking about buying a bafang midrive kit to install onto my hybrid bike and would love to hear from someone who has one to hear an honest review of it.
Iam considering the 500-750 watt range models for off road use mainly.
Apart from the obvious questions regarding relyability i want to know-1. Can the trottle be used whilst in pas mode at the same time for a quick boost like pulling off from a junction etc? Or do you have to switch off pas then use throttle then turn pas back on? 2. In pas mode is there a big lag before the motor kicks in from a stop or stanstill? And if so is there anything that can be done to reduce the lag? 3. Ive read that you can not change gears whilst the motor is running? Is this true? As i dont understand this as how is this possible in pas mode? And i would like to ride like a normal bike not stop start. Lastly...i have demo a carrera crossfire e bike 250 watt rear geared hob pas version. It was 75% perfect for me. The only downside was 1. I feel i need a throttle as well that can be used to overide the pas for pulling off. 2. The motor really struggled up a steep hill...iam a big chap and need a little bit more assistance and also riding on grass the motor really bogged down. If anyone knows of a small rear hub motor kit that would suit the requirements above plse let me know.
Many thanks

As a bbs01 owner i can say .I find there is quite a delay before the PAS gets going.You really cant push off from standstill, esp hills without strong legs, if you r in high gear.You need to stop peddeling before you can operate the throttle. Its said you should stop peddling /tap brake to disengage motor momentarily ,then change gear or the torque on the chain will damage it. I find this totally impractical on hills.You lose so much momentum. Ive changed gear hundreds of times under load with no adverse effect. I will say though mine is 350w . Ive read its more forgiving,than the higher strain of 500/750w

 

[Kinninvie]

You can stop pedalling for a second as you change gear or a press on the throttle gives you a split second pause enough to go down a gear.
Going up the gears (to a smaller cog) can be done under power..
I run both a BBS02B 750W on a MTB and a BBSHD 1000W on a hybrid.
The throttle works all the time .

 

[Fordulike]

As a bbs01 owner i can say .I find there is quite a delay before the PAS gets going.You really cant push off from standstill, esp hills without strong legs, if you r in high gear

I'm just wondering if your start current is set too low if you're having this issue.
If it's on something like 10% (like some vendor programmed units I've seen), then it will be weak on start-up, which may appear to the user as a delay.

@Tetleys

If you really want to get the best out of a BBSxx, then it's a good idea to purchase a programming cable. Link below.

Bafang programming cable

I've an early model BBS02, and I've not yet found a way to program out the motor delay. You do get used to it though. Maybe the later models have less delay!

 

[minexplorer]

I'm just wondering if your start current is set too low if you're having this issue.
If it's on something like 10% (like some vendor programmed units I've seen), then it will be weak on start-up, which may appear to the user as a delay.

@Tetleys

If you really want to get the best out of a BBSxx, then it's a good idea to purchase a programming cable. Link below.

Bafang programming cable

I've an early model BBS02, and I've not yet found a way to program out the motor delay. You do get used to it though. Maybe the later models have less delay!

you may be right fordulike.I bought a programming cable a while back .But due to a broken laptop havent been able to try it yet.

 

[minexplorer]

The throttle works however, whenever you want - just like a motorbike.
The PAS gives power as soon as you pedal and stops when you stop pedalling. you adjust its power by a separate control panel. It's like a cruise control that works whenever you pedal. The throttle takes precedence, so it overrides the PAS when you use it.

so im right in they dont work together ,just you dont have to stop peddling. Ive read others say they use a throttle for a boost during hill climbing in PAS. Different makes from the BBS ? Id not noticed a boost ,but maybe thats because id stop peddling...or the throttles programmed wrong.I will have to check it out.

 

[Electric Bike Rider]

Newer versions of the BBSHD and possibly also the BBS02 may disable the throttle when you turn the pedals and PAS kicks in, even when in PAS mode zero.
I have a BBSHD like this and it is bit of a pain but not so bad when used to it.
Or you can disable pas and have throttle only via reprogramming or cutting the wire.

This new undesirable 'feature' is definitely prevalent on all new BBSHD's and should be expected if one is bought.
I am not sure how common it is on BBS02's though. I have read about some affected but not sure if as common as the BBSHD's, or if just a matter of time as dealers acquire new stock.

 

[Electric Bike Rider]

The throttle works however, whenever you want - just like a motorbike.
The PAS gives power as soon as you pedal and stops when you stop pedalling. you adjust its power by a separate control panel. It's like a cruise control that works whenever you pedal. The throttle takes precedence, so it overrides the PAS when you use it.

On my new BBSHD I experience the complete opposite.
PAS will always take precedence and will override the throttle. So you can be on 3/4 throttle and start pedaling on PAS 1 or 0 then the power will cut to the level that PAS would give.
Unless you push the throttle all the way whilst pedaling, then you will get instant full power 30A which can be quite jolting if in a low gear in low pas!

This is a crazy change for Bafang to make (could it be a mistake, the consensus is it is intentional) and it can also affect the BBS02 so get confirmation from your supplier before you buy if you want to be sure.

 

[Fordulike]

These quirks might just be down to individual controller programming. Some units ship with stock Bafang parameters, and others where the vendor has reprogrammed before shipping.

The software has various parameters that can be tweaked for the PAS and throttle. Unfortunately I don't use a throttle, so can't have a play around with the software, to see if the throttle and PAS situation can be improved.

Anyone fancy a play lol?

 

[tommie]

Bafang Config Tool - Throttle Tab - Set Des. Assist Level to 9 in drop-down

not `By Displays Command`

 

[wheeliepete]

From what I've read some vendors will play around with settings on the BBS** without really knowing what they are doing or to detune to avoid failures and returns. I've had units from Paul at EM3EV and his settings are a good safe starting point if you want to have a play. I'm pretty sure they are on his site or on the web somewhere. Have a look on electricbikeblog, Karl has done quite a bit with these drive units.

 

[JohnnyBBadd]

Hi wheeliepete.

Have a look at the following: http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/bbsxx-mid-drive-conversion.26868/

If you're going off road then forget a hub drive - a mid drive is very much better. Don't forget that anything over 250W is illegal for road use and only legal off road with the land-owners explicit permission for you to ride on it.

 

[Tetleys]

As a bbs01 owner i can say .I find there is quite a delay before the PAS gets going.You really cant push off from standstill, esp hills without strong legs, if you r in high gear.You need to stop peddeling before you can operate the throttle. Its said you should stop peddling /tap brake to disengage motor momentarily ,then change gear or the torque on the chain will damage it. I find this totally impractical on hills.You lose so much momentum. Ive changed gear hundreds of times under load with no adverse effect. I will say though mine is 350w . Ive read its more forgiving,than the higher strain of 500/750w

Thank you very much for your reply

 

[Tetleys]

As a bbs01 owner i can say .I find there is quite a delay before the PAS gets going.You really cant push off from standstill, esp hills without strong legs, if you r in high gear.You need to stop peddeling before you can operate the throttle. Its said you should stop peddling /tap brake to disengage motor momentarily ,then change gear or the torque on the chain will damage it. I find this totally impractical on hills.You lose so much momentum. Ive changed gear hundreds of times under load with no adverse effect. I will say though mine is 350w . Ive read its more forgiving,than the higher strain of 500/750w

Thank you very much for your reply

 

[minexplorer]

Thank you very much for your reply

thanks to other comments on your thread ive learned you can still pedel when operating the throttle.The throttle overides the PAS. Ive noticed now a boost, but only if you had the PAS set lower than maximum.If its already maxed i didnt notice any increase. Its no better than pressing the PAS level up to 5 with the display switch , just a bit quicker.
This explains why i found the throttle gutless on hills but ok on the flat, when stopping peddling. My controller prob has the throttle factory set to less than 100 % . Ive noticed the voltage on the signal wire only goes to 3.95v instead of 4.2v like my other bike. Can anyone confirm this out of curiosity ? I have a programming cable,but no laptop at the mo.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The voltage from the throttle is independent of any controller settings.

 

[minexplorer]

The voltage from the throttle is independent of any controller settings.

shouldnt the throttle pressed to max give full power , ie the full 18amps regardless of peddling, d8veh ? I remember mentioning in a past thread, my bbs throttle was gutless on hills and you commented, that it was my ones programming .Im assuming that being something id have to change when i eventually get my laptop back.

 

[wheeliepete]

Factory setting on the BBS has the throttle output linked to the PAS level you are in, so to get full throttle on a hill, you must be in highest PAS setting. You are right this can be changed with the programming cable.