Advice needed - Synergie/ezee?

[flecc]

Thanks flecc for the info on the rear sprocket... is this something I could request at the time of purchase, or something I would have to consult a local bike shop for?

Not at time of purchase, but yes to local dealer and also online. More on those promised pages, any time now.
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[Dracapalley]

It's my understanding that the Forte has a throttle control and this in combination with the powerful motor was overloading the battery when de-restricted, consequently the de-restriction option was removed. I also understand that the Forza with it's EAF control suffers no overloading of the battery and can still be de-restricted.

This was what 50cycles said: 'The Forza originally depended on a widget called the EAF, which was a sort of cruise control device, but we could only sell them after fitting a throttle! So we requested for Forzas to be supplied with one already included and these have been in stock for a couple of months now.'

With regard to what Ian has said, could this therefore be a problem overloading the battery, as the Forte overloaded the battery when de-restricted because it had a throttle?

flecc, thanks for your comments. Can I just ask what you mean by 'From past experience this sort of thing can happen when supplies of parts are unreliable.' Is that to suggest it's better to avoid at the moment? Also, the rear sprocket situation, can that be done on both the Forza and the Kalkhoff? Thanks.

 

[MaryinScotland]

Going back to an earlier part of the thread, yes, you can sometimes get "normal" bike shops that sell electric bikes, although maybe not a wide range. When I was looking a year ago, I had decided via the web that Urban Mover might suit my needs, then was lucky enough to find that an Oxford bike shop stocked them, so I could buy locally. My shop only does UM; another shop just down the road has Powabykes.

I've had my UM nearly a year, done about 600 miles, not had any problems with it. But it is a comfort to know I've got somebody local to go to if necessary. However, if buying again, I'd still use Internet information to decide what bike I wanted, or maybe to compile a short-list. Then if I could find a local dealer, that's a bonus. If not, if I was distance-buying, I'd do what you are doing, ask around about customer satisfaction.

Mary

 

[Dracapalley]

Probably best to contact 50 cycles about the Forza and how it is controlled. The website is very confusing as it says the control is the same as the Torq - tri-modal. The pictures don't really match the specification, for example it says disc front and rear but shows magura hydraulic rims on the front. So it seems you cannot rely on the website.

Thanks Harry, can you or someone help a bit though please, I'm not all that technical. Firstly, is it not right that the Forza is a tri-modal then, like the Torq? As far as I know, there are the three options of power for the Forza, but I don't know about the picture to look at. What is the 'disc' front and rear which aren't there, and what are magura hydraulic rims? Apologies for my ignorance, and many thanks to all those involved in this thread.

 

[Dracapalley]

If not, if I was distance-buying, I'd do what you are doing, ask around about customer satisfaction.

Thanks Mary, good advice. That brings me on to ask, are there many of you out there who have a Forza or Kalkhoff?

 

[HarryB]

Thanks Harry, can you or someone help a bit though please, I'm not all that technical. Firstly, is it not right that the Forza is a tri-modal then, like the Torq? As far as I know, there are the three options of power for the Forza, but I don't know about the picture to look at. What is the 'disc' front and rear which aren't there, and what are magura hydraulic rims? Apologies for my ignorance, and many thanks to all those involved in this thread.

Yes from what 50 cycles say it is just like the Torq and has three way of powering. Throttle, Pedelec (which is actually the throttle which only works when you start to pedal) and no power (just like a normal bicycle but a bit heavier and with some drag from the motor). This is tri-modal.

The brakes are different in the specification to the pictures. In the pictures you can see they are rim brakes at the front and discs at the back. Rim brakes as the name suggests clamp down on the rims of the wheel and are efficient. In fact they are hydraulic rims which are low maintenance and very efficient. The specifications say that they are in fact disc front and rear and they are mechanical and offer little benefit over rims except avoiding wear on the wheel rims (which are expensive to re-build). Hydraulic disc brakes would be the best option although they have some disadvantages.

I know this all seems complicated - it will seem less so after following this forum for a while. The bottom line is that Ezee bikes are of a good specification and the brakes will be good but you need to be happy with your purchase and check what you are getting (this is the important bit).

Please ask if you need any more information there are plenty of us to help.

PS if you don't know what different brakes are disc etc then a look up on wikapedia is quite a good start.

 

[Dracapalley]

Hi,

Many thanks Harry for your comments and apologies it's taken a while to reply. Thanks for explaining about the different brake types.
I don't know if anyone is following this thread any longer, but if they are, can I re-ask a question, please.

Ian said on here that there was a problem with the Forte being derestricted as the battery would overload because it had a throttle, which was why you could no longer buy the model de-restricted. Now that the Forza also has a throttle, does it have the same problem of overloading?

Many thanks.

 

[coops]

I would have thought so (with Lithium batteries, but not likely with NiMH) since as far as I'm aware the f-series bikes have the same motor & electronics aswell as frame, but differ in some components like gears & brakes.

Stuart.

 

[HarryB]

Well the new battery is slightly different (the battery monitoring system is in fact different) and so it is less likely to cut out under load. There is an on-going debate about the suitability of using the Li-ion batteries for such a high powered machine - see the numerous other threads about this. For this reason alone I personally would not buy the Forza/Li-ion combination

 

[coops]

Ah, yes - I forgot about that .

Stuart.

 

[Dracapalley]

Thanks again for the posts. Am I wrong in thinking that there is the option to choose which type of battery comes with the bike? I thought I read something somewhere, but I can't recall where.

 

[HarryB]

Thanks again for the posts. Am I wrong in thinking that there is the option to choose which type of battery comes with the bike? I thought I read something somewhere, but I can't recall where.

Nope - no choice but Li-ion (at the moment anyway).

 

[coops]

As far as I know all Ezee bikes will operate, in principle, with either NiMH or Li-ion and even though a bike may be sold as standard with one or other battery & its specific charger, you can always try asking 50cycles specifically for one or other type with your purchase if you wish - thats what I did back in March when I requested a Torq with NiMH, even though there was a special offer on Torq with the Lithium (the 'default'/standard option at the time, IIRC).

I think Hal is referring to the shortage & hence current unavailability of NiMH which might require you to place an order with 50cycles well in advance, if thats the option you want, unless there has been a change in policy re Ezee bikes & NiMH I'm unaware of.

I recently looked at the 50cycles battery page, which said Lithium were in low stock. Best to contact them to see whats your options .

Stuart.

 

[HarryB]

Yes I am sure that 50 cycles will do you a Forza/Forte with the NiMH combination if they are keen to make a sale. However there are no supplies of NiMH batteries and as far as I can tell, no idea if and when they will come back in stock. To summarise the situation - Ezee will supply NiMH batteries if they are ordered. According to 50 cycles they have been ordered, according to Ezee they have not. Your choice as to who to believe - it certainly knocks my confidence in the Ezee brand with this ridiculous carry on.

Your best option is to ring up 50 cycles yourself and ask for the options - if you are not in a hurry (2-3 months) then you may get a Forza/NiMH powered bike.

 

[flecc]

flecc, thanks for your comments. Can I just ask what you mean by 'From past experience this sort of thing can happen when supplies of parts are unreliable.' Is that to suggest it's better to avoid at the moment? Also, the rear sprocket situation, can that be done on both the Forza and the Kalkhoff? Thanks.

Sorry about the delay in seeing this.

No need to wait, part supply unreliability is a semi-permanent situation in cycle manufacture in recent years, there's always something in short supply due to surges in demand for certain models or types of bike. The big manufacturers buy up supplies in advance to ensure production continuity, leading to shortages for the others.

The simple sprocket change I mentioned is only on the Kalkhoff, due to it's hub gear and both motor and rider driving through it.

However, you wouldn't need to make any gearing change on the Forza since it has a gear range that covers any hill steepness, right through to over 20 mph.

Referring to the battery type, much depends on whether you have hills to climb and how steep or long they are. On steep or long climbs where the throttle is held fully open for quite a while, the Li-ion battery will not be able to sustain the high current demand of the Forza motor and a safety cutout will operate. That could make your journey frustrating. However, if your trip is mainly fairly flat, enabling you to keep up speed well above 12 mph or so, you won't suffer badly from the cut-out problem simply because the bike will run at half throttle with power to spare in those circumstances. NiMh batteries do not suffer that cutting out.

It's a balance, the NiMh don't cut out and last a bit longer, but are not so convenient when charging as they need some extra attention.

Li-ion can cut out as described when used with powerful motors, and they can be shorter lived, but they are very convenient in use since they can be charged at any time by any amount, in no way restricting the way they are charged, so simplest to use.
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[chas]

PS if you don't know what different brakes are disc etc then a look up on wikapedia is quite a good start.

I can recommend Sheldon Brown's website. It's a fantastic mine of information.

Chas

 

[Ian]

I can recommend Sheldon Brown's website. It's a fantastic mine of information.

Chas

I'll second that. Not sure about his taste in helmet adornments though.