Advice needed - Synergie/ezee?

Dracapalley

Finding my (electric) wheels
Dec 6, 2007
10
0
Hi,


This is my first post on here. I bought a Synergie 'Commuter' folding bike last year. It cost me just over £300 although I don't think the bike is sold anymore. The closest thing I found to it is possibly the Shamal (?), not sure.

The bike itself is comfortable to ride and when it worked, I liked it a lot. The bike must have broken down so much in the first few months, the company kept telling me to return it and they'd fix it but mostly they kept sending new bikes. Four of them. They've all had problems. I've just finished the first year, so now I have no warranty left, although I had to return it only a few months ago when, again, it stopped working altogether. Thinking, after that most recent repair, that I'd be alright for a while, I'm now experiencing the power cutting in and out, sometimes it stops altogether, then starts working again half an hour later. And this comes after a £54 repair job from the local bike shop to fix the (second) puncture and replace the chain.
Needless to say, I'm a bit disheartened. The customer service was good, but the Synergie franchise I bought from is located in Scotland. I have the possibility of returning the bike, but it will probably cost £70 for collection and return before repair expenses. From my experience with this bike, breaking seems to be a regular thing and I wondered if I'd be better off spending more on a more reliable option.

So, I started to look online, through the myriad of electric bikes.
Then I came across ezee. I liked the look of the Torq, but it's too big for me so I'm looking at the Forza.
However, it's incredibly expensive and searching on this forum produced posts on customers unhappy with the cheap accessories, problematic 'juddering' front brake, battery failure, etc. I'm really confused with what to think, I put the cheap accessories on my Synergie bike down to the fact that it was a cheap Chinese import and you get what you pay for, but at nearly £1300 for the Forza, I'd expect a lot.
It also worries me about the fact that all these electric bikes seem to be sold by online mailing companies that monopolize the market, and after-care is a worry. I've read that 50cycles aren't the most helpful when it comes to unhappy customers, which isn't reassuring (not that I intend to be unhappy, I just want some security).

Are there any really good electric bikes out there that are sold at 'normal' shops, or more than one company online, that have a good reputation; top quality and reliability on their side and great after-care should you require it?

Also, after searching this forum and google, I've found nothing but good reviews for Synergie, which surprises me, can four bikes and multiple repairs in one year really be a one off? The paint was peeling and the rust setting in after a couple of weeks of having it.

I hope someone can tell me that yes, ezee really are a world apart and I'll get a really quality bike, not just a week after buying it, but a year+ on. Maybe I want too much, but then the price dictates that. Hope to hear from someone.
Thanks.
 

keithhazel

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 1, 2007
997
0
similar none too helpful advice from scotland supplier

i too bought a synergie folder off e-bay from the same place in scotland, mine is the one sustain cycles call the "eddison"...i did have a doubt about the power lasting in the battery so contacted them via e-mail,their reply was "call in and see bob our engineer"...i replied that "calling in to see bob" was a poor reply to make when they know i live 200 miles away in Hull, no further reply from them,having then done tests on my bike and found i can get 12 miles just on power mode, (as long as no wind or gradient) i realised thats about right for a 24 volt battery...the rest of the bike i think is brilliant, folds up quick, light,in and out of the car boot, on the train ect no problem, comfy, and all the kids think im dead cool...the gear ratio is very bad and had to have large front chain wheel added and smaller rear set, this helped by about 2 mph in pedal assist mode, but i WANT power so very soon i will selling it.
 

Dracapalley

Finding my (electric) wheels
Dec 6, 2007
10
0
Hi Keith,

That's interesting that you also bought from the same place. I, too, bought mine from eBay. I like the 'call in to see our engineer' comment! Did you have any trouble with the quality of your bike? I have to shove two pieces of foam either side of the battery as it rattles so much you can hardly hear yourself think. Even with the foam, going over bumps makes it rattle. I also have problems with the seat post not sitting snugly and when I turn to see traffic behind me, the saddle sometimes turns with me! When the bike works though, it's great, very useful going up hills, although on the flat it's annoying that the gears prevent you from cycling as fast as you could comfortably on a non-electric bike. Reaching speeds of 17mph on the flat means that your legs are going like the clappers. Comfortable seat though, and I enjoy the more up-right position.

Just to add to this thread... I've heard great things about the Giant Twist (or previously, the Giant Lafree, I think?) but also that they've discontinued the bike. However, looking on the Giant website, it looks as though they're still going. When I entered my postcode to search for a dealer on the website, I found that my local bike shop is listed! Is this a mistake?
 

BossBob

Pedelecer
Oct 20, 2007
58
0
Fife - Scotland - KY11
Hi, I am a relative newbie with only a months experience, however,

The rolling resistance of a pedelec is greater than a pushbike, I suspect that is true of most if not all pedelecs.
The gearing on my wrangler is also too low for my liking, I have adjusted my style to match, I don't push for speed as much and still maintain the same average, with far less effort.
I take it you NEED a folder, if not I'd be looking at the Agutta or the Wisper 905 with my new found knowledge and understanding ........ Ok, I really mean the wisdom of the knowledgeable on here, coupled with my experience of an entry level bike ;)

Next time - I wouldn't have a mountain bike design, crank too high in relation to seat, very high rolling resistance, Top gear too low (and I have been to the shop and it is as high as is available 48/14 ) limited range. That said, so far it is superb value for money and does exactly what it says on the label.

I think you have been a bit unlucky, call it a friday machine ( times 4 ) and move on.

FWIW the dealer you speak of is about 1 mile from my home and I had a couple of test rides there, they certainly seem to move a lot.

Rab
 

keithhazel

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 1, 2007
997
0
50 cycles brilliant customer satisfaction

no problem with quality of bike, yes occasionally the seat turns a tad but thats all dependant on tightening it more, ok if your strong i guess,mine is definatly a different folder to yours , think madel after yours, my battery juts out on a bracket under the seat.your right about flat road speed, which is why i tried with extra chain cog sizes, still only able to pedal at about 11-12 which i used in assist mode when breeze holds me back too much, no hills to go up to try...excellant bike, comfy ect..just the lack of power as 11mph on a minor gradient or breeze is no laughing matter,wheel size is speed problem, cant have it all ways, im on the verge of getting a quando...have heard 50 cycles are brilliant with customer satisfaction and just awaiting to hear from them now...
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,260
30,648
The rolling resistance of a pedelec is greater than a pushbike, I suspect that is true of most if not all pedelecs.
It's mostly true of wheelhub motor bikes on overrun without power applied, Rab, the orbital gears then having to be driven by the wheel, and it doesn't matter if they are pedelec (power with pedals) or throttle controlled (sometimes called e-bikes, though that's a general term.)

There's no reason why electric bikes with other drive systems need have higher rolling resistance, and some are equal to or even better than many ordinary bikes.

Drive resistance is different though, with motor or pedal drive applied there is some resistance in the drive system, and the motor part of that is additional to that of ordinary bikes of course, though not relevant for comparison.
.
 

keithhazel

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 1, 2007
997
0
towing an anchor when pedal only

sort of glad to hear that as thought it was only me as i know if my battery went flat i wouldnt be able to pedal it with it killing me when i arried home...ok i am a little unfit but its like pulling an anchor behind:eek:
 

Dracapalley

Finding my (electric) wheels
Dec 6, 2007
10
0
Thanks BossBob, useful info. I'm starting to think perhaps I shouldn't go for a folding bike and should have a look at the Kalkhoff Aggattu, it does look well made. The Gazelle does too, but expensive, and the Sparta ION also looks like a quality bike.
My fascination with the Forza is primarily because it can be derestricted and speed is frustrating on the electric bike that I have at the moment. There's no doubt that the average speed of a journey is increased with the assistance, but it's when you're on the flat and really want to get some speed behind you as you would on a 'normal' bike that it can become frustrating. The Kalkhoff Aggattu only has 7 Shimano gears, which is what I already have (or maybe it's 6, not sure), and I find the top gear not high enough. I wonder if this could be rectified.

Keithhazel, I also looked into the Quando, but I'm a bit unsure about having only one gear, especially when I'm trying to find something with higher gears.

I might have a go at trying to fix my Synergie bike first, I was looking at flecc's page which sounds like I may have a damp problem which is maybe why it's cutting out. It's worth a try, I don't intend on sending it back.
 

keithhazel

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 1, 2007
997
0
bobs gone on holiday

SEND IT BACK !! you got to find bob first !!....reading what you have put i will tell you what flecc and others will tell you, as ive had it said to me, if you want speed dont go for the quando,unless you happy to trundle along at 15mph all the time,as you know with small wheel bikes you simply cannot pedal past the restricted speed, i have just spent £75 on new chain gears and it gave me 2mph on pedal assist when the breeze killed my speed and then im only back to 12 maybe 13 mph if i want to push it, pedaling is not my idea at all,if you have hiils then i have been told the quando is the man !!! read fleccs brill web pages and see what he did with his bikes, the quando especially...every man has his price they say..i wonder :D
 

coops

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 18, 2007
1,225
1
Manchester U.K.
Dracapalley said:
My fascination with the Forza is primarily because it can be derestricted and speed is frustrating on the electric bike that I have at the moment. There's no doubt that the average speed of a journey is increased with the assistance, but it's when you're on the flat and really want to get some speed behind you as you would on a 'normal' bike that it can become frustrating. The Kalkhoff Aggattu only has 7 Shimano gears, which is what I already have (or maybe it's 6, not sure), and I find the top gear not high enough. I wonder if this could be rectified.
Can the Forza still be derestricted? - I recall reading only one of the f-series can now be delimited...

Also don't be too concerned with the number of gears - the gear range on bikes depends on the highest & lowest gear ratios, not the total number of gears: for normal pedalling fairly close spaced gears are best for maintaining pedalling speed within an optimum range for efficiency, but on an electric bike mainly used with motor assist a small number of wide-spaced gears can be more practical than a large number of close-spaced gears.

I have no info on other bikes, but IIRC the gearing on the f-series, new Torq & kalkhoff are all appropriate to the range of speeds they do e.g. 22-23mph plus on the Torq/f-series (if it can be derestricted) and at least 17.5 mph on the agattu (for which gearing can be increased/reduced by changing the cog on the rear hub gear) - much more detailed info coming on that bike soon, hopefully ;).

Some might say that 7,8 or 9 gears on (hub motor) electric bikes is already more than is necessary :).

Stuart.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,260
30,648
The Kalkhoff Aggattu only has 7 Shimano gears, which is what I already have (or maybe it's 6, not sure), and I find the top gear not high enough. I wonder if this could be rectified.
Yes, and it would only cost the price of a rear sprocket. Full details are in the "Extra" supplement of my review which will be released straight after the A to B magazine drops on doormats.

However, the number of gears doesn't necessarily affect how high top gear is, the width of ratios does. For a given bottom gear, a narrow ratio gear set will give a low top gear, while a wide ratio gearset will give a high top gear.
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Ian

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 1, 2007
1,333
0
Leicester LE4, UK.
I too started e-biking with a Synergie and my experiences were pretty much the same as yours and many other members of the Synergie forum of which I was a member at that time. After not very long long yet another unpowered ride home I decided enough was enough and bought an Ezee Torq, and yes, it is worlds apart in terms of quality, sure it has faults, but the same faults have occurred on expensive non-powered bikes, and there have been issues with Li-ion battery life. However on the battery life issue it is as well to remember that Ezee were the first to use Lithium batteries in powerful production bikes, the competition isn't yet mature enough to have experienced the same problems in any numbers. My own choice was for NiMh which has proved trouble free, at least with Ezee there is a choice, although at present NiMh may involve a wait.

On the subject of customer service it is true that not everyone has been satisfied with 50cycles, but its also true that the vast majority are entirely satisfied. It is inevitable that out of several thousand customers not all will be happy and I think the fact it is such a tiny percentage speaks volumes.
Personally I have had no need to test the customer service aspect, the product performing faultlessly.
 

Dracapalley

Finding my (electric) wheels
Dec 6, 2007
10
0
No, the Forza can no longer be derestricted.
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Can anyone else comment on this, please? 50cycles say the Forza, along with the Torq, can be derestricted. They e-mailed me recently regarding this.
Thanks flecc for the info on the rear sprocket... is this something I could request at the time of purchase, or something I would have to consult a local bike shop for?

Ian, that's reassuring about the ezee bike. I wonder if the Forza is alongside the Torq in terms of still being 'worlds apart'. I read somewhere someone describing the EAF control as a toaster control. Made me laugh, but I've seen it on youtube and they're right. I understand this has been replaced with a throttle now, but gimicky controls brings my mind back to these cheaper Chinese models. See, when I see the display controls on the Kalkhoff, or the Sparta, it looks professional. What a dilema. I can't find any user reviews on the Kalkhoff yet, only what's on the A to B website, so it's early days.
 

HarryB

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 22, 2007
1,317
3
London
Can anyone else comment on this, please? 50cycles say the Forza, along with the Torq, can be derestricted. They e-mailed me recently regarding this.
Yes I am sure that the Forza can be de-restricted but the Forte cannot.
 

coops

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 18, 2007
1,225
1
Manchester U.K.
I understood the Forza's EAF replaced the twist throttle which was a 'standard' fitting on the bike for only a very short while when they first appeared? Has this now changed?

Stuart.
 

Dracapalley

Finding my (electric) wheels
Dec 6, 2007
10
0
I understood the Forza's EAF replaced the twist throttle which was a 'standard' fitting on the bike for only a very short while when they first appeared? Has this now changed?

Stuart.
I think it must have. Unless I have misunderstood 50cycles.
 

Ian

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 1, 2007
1,333
0
Leicester LE4, UK.
It's my understanding that the Forte has a throttle control and this in combination with the powerful motor was overloading the battery when de-restricted, consequently the de-restriction option was removed. I also understand that the Forza with it's EAF control suffers no overloading of the battery and can still be de-restricted.

I would imagine the F series bikes are as well built as the Torq, they share the same designer, factory and workers and the bought-in components are high quality standard parts from respected manufacturers.

I have to agree that the EAF cotrol has a home-made appearance which is not really to my taste but then neither are others with lots of LEDs that are hard to see in sunlight. At least the concept of a simple rotary control appeals to me.. if not the way it's done.
 

HarryB

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 22, 2007
1,317
3
London
Probably best to contact 50 cycles about the Forza and how it is controlled. The website is very confusing as it says the control is the same as the Torq - tri-modal. The pictures don't really match the specification, for example it says disc front and rear but shows magura hydraulic rims on the front. So it seems you cannot rely on the website.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,260
30,648
50cycles originally posted in here the other way round.

They said Forza EAF and restricted only, Forte throttle and could be derestricted, this was also on their website, and machines customers received then supported that.

Now I see the website has changed again. However, it seems that it's not their fault, the specification of bikes received changing beyond their control, so they are reporting what they get into stock. From past experience this sort of thing can happen when supplies of parts are unreliable. meaning no manufacture or a change of specification to overcome a shortfall in supplies.

Obviously best to check on the current situation at time of intended purchase as HarryB says.
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